Kayak carrier

[Bumblebee]

On many of my journeys there is a decent amount of water involved which is a showstopper for adventures.
I grew up on, in, and around boats and finally got around to getting a kayak.

It's a 11'5" Walden Adirondack kayak. It's good enough for most exploring, large lakes, close in coastal playing around and a week or two camping trips.

It's carried on top of the motorhome. The problem is that sometimes, quite often actually, I can't get close enough to the water with the motorhome to unload up to 100 lbs of kayak and supplies at the water. It can be a few hundred feet and up to 2-3 miles away.

What does a kayak have to do with motorcycles? Um, THIS along with a little creativity:

[Laminar]

Subscribing!

[meatface]

Subscribing!

+1
 

[LOKi]

I love kayaks. Like to see how you rig up the yak as well as the trailer. A good thing to add is an umbrella holder. Good on calm days in the hot sun. Also good on the breezy days when you have to travel down wind. 

Here is my setup. Haven't been using the yak lately but it's fun to fish out of. You can get to the spots anglers in bass boats only dream of.

[Bumblebee]

The plan: Tow the kayak like a trailer.

Everything I do though must minimize volume and weight so I have to get creative.

For those who aren't familiar with kayaks, on the front and rear there are grab handles through a ring on the ends of the boat that you can lift or pull it with. That is the solution to the problem

And thustly we begin.

First is a hitch on the motorcycle. I have to have a way to tow the kayak.

I have a hondaline luggage rack with a back rest. The boat has to stay far enough aft of the motorcycle to not hit the lights back there when I'm bouncing around a bit. I take some 2x3 lumber I found laying around and make two pieces that are 24 inches long to shift the boat aft away from the motorcycle.
I then took some shorter pieces of 1x2 to use as hooks to attach the 2x3's to the luggage rack hardware. Cut the aft end with a 45 degree angle with a flat end to fit the luggage rack. Cut the front end with a slot that will drop into place under the forward cross bar.
Then it's just a case of screwing the 1x2's to the 2x3's for the extension.

1. The fixed luggage rack
2. 2x3 luggage rack extensions
3. The 1x2 lower attach hook hardware rear and front.
4. Three screws to hold the 1x2's to the 2x3's
5. This is how it fits on both sides

[Bumblebee]

So far so good however there's nothing to hold onto.

The next step is to make a cross piece for the boat to hook onto.
All that's needed is a 12" long 2x3 to mount horizontally. Drill 4 holes (two would do however I'm brutal on stuff) Also a large eye bolt for the boat to hook to.

Drill and install the hardware and the tow hitch is complete.
Note that I am going to use a strong bungee cord instead of a direct connection through the carabiner. The bungee will be used to reduce shock forces against the boat's hard point. Also a bungee cord goes over the aft portion of the hitch hardware to keep it secure to the rack. (This project was completed yesterday and I'm not going to ride 150 miles for a few trivial pieces of hardware I can get when I go into town next week anyway)

1. The finished hitch. The bolts are loose because I forgot to take pictures while it was together.
2. The boat hooked up minus the bungee cord.
3. So far so good however I'm thinking hell no at this point. It needs a few more pieces.

[Bumblebee]

A good thing to add is an umbrella holder. Good on calm days in the hot sun.

I'd like to see a close up of the umbrella mount if you can get it at some point. I likely won't use an umbrella (not yet anyway) however I come from a sailing environment and have some ideas to help push me along downwind.

Also if you have a rudder on it, I could use a few pictures of how the rigging is done and specifically what the stock hardware (cables and such) looks like and is installed. I have a rudder without any cabling so I'm going to be making that up as I go along at some point. It looks straightforward however I'd like to see the real thing before I start installing that. I used a kayak with a rudder many years ago however I never looked at the rudder rigging much at the time.

You can get to the spots anglers in bass boats only dream of.

No kidding. I haven't had it in the water yet however the displacement is going to be measured in single digit inches - and not a lot of them. They'll never get their ocean liners where this thing can go.

[LOKi]

I'll take some pictures of the umbrella holder when I get home. I'll try not to forget. The rudder bracket broke on me and I have not got around to fixing it. The peddles are still wired up so I'll take a close up shot of that.

I don't think my umbrella holder will work on a Sit in kayak. I have many flat places where the holder can be mounted where it sticks straight up and without drilling through to the outside of the yak. Maybe if you mounted it to the back of your seat. Let me know if you want one of the brackets I have a few laying around that I made here at work.

[LOKi]

That got me thinking. Instead of using the handle would it be possible to attach two pieces of metal sticking up a little in the front. They could be screwed right into the side of the bow. Through the metal pieces you could put a threaded rod through the I-bolt you have to hang carabiner from now. That way when you hit the breaks the boat doesn't swing forward. That could cause some weird input especially on dirt roads. Ridged would be better I think.

[Bumblebee]

That got me thinking. Instead of using the handle would it be possible to attach two pieces of metal sticking up a little in the front. They could be screwed right into the side of the bow. Through the metal pieces you could put a threaded rod through the I-bolt you have to hang carabiner from now. That way when you hit the breaks the boat doesn't swing forward. That could cause some weird input especially on dirt roads. Ridged would be better I think.

I don't want to use the bow tiedown hole long term. This is to get it fully operational. Modifications will come later. I'm going to put a cleat or deck tiedown there with a good solid backplate to distribute the load. I can't have anything permanently sticking up above the deck since it's carried upside down on the motorhome with minimal vertical clearance.

You'll see later what I've done to control it swinging around when braking and turning. It's dirt simple and works quite well.

[Bumblebee]

Ok so where was I? Oh yea, dragging the boat hull on the proverbial 4-grit belt sander. That's no good and there's a solution to that.

Here's the parts list:

4 pieces of 4' long 1/2" pvc pipe
5 pvc T-connectors
3 pvc 90 deg angle connectors
9 pvc 45 deg angle connectors
1 end cap
pvc glue
1 piece of 4ft long foam pipe insulation that fits the pvc pipe

1 threaded rod 3' long 9/16" diameter fits inside the pvc nicely
4 washers
2 standard nuts
1 locking nut
2 wheels - 10" diameter with innertubes - You can use cheaper tires however I bought these for a reason so think about your intended use before doing and remember that I build for reliability and capability. The wheels are the most spendy part of the entire project.

40 feet of 1" webbing - that's just enough for my 11'6" boat plus a little so adjust the total length accordingly and you'll see what the details of that is later.
5 fastek style buckles. It's important to get the ones that have the slider piece on both pieces of the buckle and not the type that has one end that has to be sewn into place. (I can't find anyone else that has these except Ace/true value hardware and they have them by the dumptruck loads) You can use the other ones if you desire however these are just easier and faster to use.


Never use glue anywhere that I don't say use glue or you'll get what you deserve and I'll say I told you so.

Put two sets of T connectors together with a short piece of PVC between them and put them on the axle. Then put the wheels on and measure the distance between the T-connectors for a piece of pipe to go on the axle. Never use glue on these parts since they have to move.
For the wheel attachment: Put a big washer on each side of the axle. The two non locking nuts will be used on one side and friction locked together. The locking nut is used on the other side. If you try to use locking nuts on both sides, you'll get one on and the other will never tighten down due to friction related problems.

Next, cut 4 pieces of pvc 12" long. These are the vertical supports that lift the boat up so it won't drag the ground. Put 3 90deg angles and one of the t-fittings on each pipe. The t-fitting needs to be installed so it would continue the pipe in the same direction without turning. (There's a reason for this later)

Put the 4 pieces of pvc into the t-fittings on the axle. The one with the t-connector on it goes on either of the inboard fittings.

And now the custom build begins...


1. Wheels installed on the axle with the t-connectors.
2. Vertical supports installed on the axle. Note the position and angle of the fittings including the t-fitting.

[LOKi]

You know they make these carts all put together right? 


For those with more money than time. They do start off a little on the high side around $55. I think I picked up mine on clearance around $25 though but I was just lucky.

Sorry....

Continue.

 

[Bumblebee]

Yes. And they're going for $95-150 in most places I've seen. $79 was the super el-cheapo. My total cost was $45 (tires were the spendy bit) and it'll fit in the boat easily. If it gets broke, I can repair it.

Try running one of those plastic tire things at 40mph for a couple miles down an unimproved dirt road some time and see what happens.

[n5tbu]

 [/quote]
You'll see later what I've done to control it swinging around when braking and turning. It's dirt simple and works quite well.
[/quote]


Bee,be careful the first pull...I'm thinking it's gonna be awkward pulling from such a high point on the bike.
mod

[Bumblebee]

I yanked the wheels and axle off so it would be easy to work with.
I flipped the boat over and put the previously completed hardware on the boat where it would normally ride and started measuring.
The inside two pieces go toward the more narrow rear, the outer pices go toward the wider front.

The 45 deg pieces were used to shape the bracket around the hull. In my case, the side down angles toward the center were 5 inches long with a center piece to balance out the difference.
I did the same thing for the forward piece and it was 3 inch angled pieces.

All the pieces for the cross bar are glued together. They are also glued into the side 90 degree pieces. (Always test fit first, then glue) The end pieces that attach to the 12" pieces are just slid together and stay in by the tiedowns.

1. The rear angles being assembled. Note the front section is just a straight piece of pvc at the moment to make working on the rear part easier without it falling all over the place.
2. The completed kayak carrier hardware. Note the web strapping holding the two sides at a 90 degree angle to each other. One strap per side and wrapped around so it can't come loose or slip.
3. The completed carrier itself with the straps that hold the sides at the proper angle.

[Bumblebee]

Now for the rigging:

The two side straps holding the angles to the proper distance is easy enough.

The other two straps are critical.

One goes over the rear of the boat. This one goes as a single piece of webbing. It goes over the boat directly above the forward support. Then it goes back to the rear support and is wrapped around the support twice to keep it from slipping. Do this on both sides. Then the remaining strap goes aft to the rear lift rope and the buckle is pulled tight to keep everything secure.

The next strap is the forward strap. This keeps the carrier from slipping off the back of the boat. I have a set of buckles on the strap at the axle. The strap then goes forward to the front tiedown at the carabiner (I put a second carabiner there to make it easy) then back to the axle on the other side. Note that the straps are secured around the axle between the two t-connectors.

The clever bit is this: The rear strap has to be snug. Then pull the axle straps tight enough to move the front of the boat forward so the boat can't shift forward very much. Leave slack however the riser strap from the boat should be angled backward a bit.

1. The straps over the boat at the carrier. The rear portion of this strap doesn't go directly over the boat, it goes aft to the rear lift rope handle.
2. The forward strap at the hitch.

[fortyhourdays]

Excellent work.  I built something similar with my dad for our canoe when I was a kid.

[Bumblebee]

At this point it's essentially complete.
It only needs two things more that I'm going to pick up next week:
Foam pipe insulation around the pvc where it contacts the boat hull.
Strong elastic band at the hitch to reduce shock forces delivered to the boat.

The last bit is that extra t-fitting that we haven't stuck anythign in yet. I put a 45deg fitting in there and a piece of pvc with a cap on it. On this pole I'll put a small flag. The idea being any cage behind me should see the pole and flag thus not running over my boat at stop signs or such places.


The forward and rear ropes have to be hooked up to keep this in place when pulling it over anything beyond polite ground or it'll try to slip off.

To collapse the carrier, the front and rear supports simply fold together. I can also take the axle out and remove the wheels. The vertical supports are friction fit and can be pulled off which allows it to collapse down into almost nothing.

For hand pulling, the carrier can be moved forward closer to the boat's center of gravity and can be balanced and pulled with two fingers.

I rolled it around a bit to see how it would work and it was very secure and well behaved.

After that I hooked it up to the motorcycle and pulled it slowly up the dirt road about 1/4 mile each way while checking and proceeding to go faster as I was reassured it was secure. The first run was 15mph for 1/4 mile on bumps that literally bounced both carrier wheels off the ground. It came down without any indication it was going to come loose or flip over.
I turned around from the dirt road and drove through the local west AZ scrub brush at 10mph and kept going for a minute and it held on like it was on flat pavement.
The second test run ran up to 35mph on the same road and onto the second road that's not overly nice. (I have been riding that road regularly and can now go 45mph on it without even thinking about it though anyone else would crash their brains out if they tried - I know all the little oopsie places and how to avoid them)

Notes from the test flight:
* Rocking the motorcycle off the centerstand is a little weird with the boat attached. It's easier to use the sidestand.
* The boat honestly follows me around like it's not even back there. I can feel it however it's a total non event to tow it.
* I do have to consider the added length. It sticks out almost 12 feet past the luggage rack. Any tight turn around shrubs or a post and it'll hook the obstacle. This is easily enough avoided just by looking behind and not being silly.
* Generic turns are a non event. It doesn't pull the motorcycle to one side very much at all. I can feel it tugging to the side when going very slow making a tight turn however it's not any worse than having a passenger on the motorcycle with me. On tighter turns it does turn inside my turn radius so any obstacles inside the turn has to be considered.
* I can literally do a slow school 180 degree turn in about 20 feet without the boat doing anything rude to me. The wheels almost completely stop however the boat follows me around and off we go. I am capable of turning way tighter than that however the boat would have a problem with it. The boat length plus 5 feet is a very easily turn radius on a decent surface.
* Towing on the dirt road and through the shrubbery is no big deal. A little caution is necessary however it can be done. If a street bike can do it, the kayak can most likely do it also.
* Braking and acceleration: As long as that forward strap pulls the attach rope back like in the previous posted picture, braking is a non event. I can feel it shift however it doesn't do anything rude. Even at maximum braking on the dirt road it was very well behaved.


I can confidently pull this in state and national parks at 30mph. I don't want to go much over that just on general principle though I suspect it would be safe at 40mph. Beyond that, the little 10" wheels are spinning way too fast. Most parks are 10-25mph anyway.


Total cost and time:
Everything was bought at Ace hardware/true value and was right at $45 and change. The wheels were $14 each which was most of the expense. (I put the money into the wheels so it could handle the abuse I'll put them though). If anything breaks, all I have to do is go to a hardware store to fix it.
Total build time once I had the materials in hand was about 2 hours give or take a little. Three hours was first cut to completed test ride.

Completed pictures post test flight:

[NightHawked]

Nice job, can we get some action shots of the kayak in use please.

[FearThis SC]

Excellent Bee!  Great job 

Kayak Safe...

[Bumblebee]

Nice job, can we get some action shots of the kayak in use please.

There will be some. I need to get to water first.
I've had a specific paddle trip in mind since last year though it's about 10 miles of paddling to do it. I may overnight on an island somewhere too. I just have to wait to get there when the water is warmer. July most likely for that Adventure.

[NightHawked]

Sounds worth the wait, thanks.

[Floridamtbiker99]

That is so awesome.  I have pictues of the local FLorida bikers that make there own kayak trailer for there motorcycle.

When I get some extra money I will do the same.

[hppants]

Very interesting and thorough read, Mr. Bee.  Towing a kayak wouldl be a way for me to take the bike fishing, but I would have to tow quite a few road miles, and this idea wouldn't work for that.  Like N5tbu, I'm concerned that having the hitch point so high, and coupliing that with a 3 dimensional pivot point, is not going to work very well under breaking.  Framing down toward the swingarm of the bike is a real easy fix, though.

Also, is the bow eye is just plastic?  I've seen the roads you ride on, and it doesn't seem like that will last long.  I suppose with a PVC axle (  ), you aren't planning to go very far?

Maybe Loki's umbrella mount would make a good mono-pod stay?

[ariwhiteboy]

  This is getting good. 

Show of Hands: Who knew that BB started this thread by just reading the title?

Yep, me too.