An Observation of a Noob

[Wearyeyed]

I think we can all agree the most "dangerous" cagers on the road, to those of us on a bike, are the ones that don't see you.

With about 1000 miles under my belt in less than a month, as an admittedly "nervous" rider, and in the wake of two days of travel-by-cage due to weather, I have noticed something else:

Given an equal playing-field where cagers see you - whether in a cage or on a bike - the masses tend to be more intentionally aggressive (or even reckless) when you are in the cage.

Especially on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday.

I see FAR more driving lunacy while in the car than while on the bike and, with few exceptions, the majority of those I see on a bike appear less "intentional."

While safer in my car, I can't help but wonder if I am managing more "potential mishaps" more regularly than I do when I am on a bike.

Other drivers certainly get my ire up more often while I'm in a car vs. while I'm on the bike...    

Anyone up for confirming or falsifying my observation?

[happycommuter]

I may be way off point, but as a beginner you are certainly less predictable.  People that are actually paying attention can generally spot this and afford you more leeway for your safety and their own.  I certainly remember testing the patience of others as an inexperienced spaz. 

Modern cars are too dang safe and people are willing to take more chances to assume the same risk.  The crash risks for a motorcyclist (ignoring the great strides in protective gear - which cagers are unaware of) are still very high and motorists know that scuffing a car bumper and bumping a bike lead to very different results.

Your first sentence is correct.  This is why near-misses should not cause an emotional rise.  99+% of the time, it was error and not deliberate malice. 

[harrisonfaulkner]

For the last month, I have been commuting 20 miles each way through congested areas. All I can say is, every single day I have multiple close calls, and it simply doesn't bother me anymore. People are busy, that's fine, and I just keep an eye out for them.

I rarely notice any aggression while in my car, but I might just not pay it any attention. 

[Poligrafovich]

Malicious driving, while it does happen, is the exception rather than the rule. The problem is that driving, like everything mortals do, is done imperfectly. We make mistakes driving cars, and we make mistakes riding motorcycles.

Different activities have different margins for error. We've spent a century optimizing automobile transportation for fault tolerance. Motorcycles are not only less forgiving by nature than cars, they're a minority in a world designed around something else. Mistakes, by themselves or by others, are far more likely to visit serious consequences on motorcyclists than on lemmings in shining metal boxes.

[Wearyeyed]

So, to keep it simple, do you think cages do *not* generally behave more cautiously around seen motorcycles than they would in the absence of motorcycles?

That is not what I observe, but I suppose with only a few hundred miles on a bike, maybe I miss the behaviors I see so prevelantly whilst in my car...

[happycommuter]

I suspect that motorcycle capabilities are a great unknown to those who've never them.  We can roughly prejudge the vehicle (or the driver that chose it) and react accordingly.  For every kamikaze biker, there's an unhurried cruiser and all bikes look the same to the uninitiated.  We get the benefit of the doubt that we may be crazy, essentially.

When one is a newb, breaking in a new bike, or just taking it slow it clearly vexes cagers who rather expect all bikes to be ridden by suicidal teen boys or outlaw meth-heads. 

The flipside of this is that when infractions do occur, they are much more memorable due to the risk they add.  Somebody tailgating your car is a nuisance.  Tailgating your bike is potentially fatal.  Same with getting cut off.

[Wearyeyed]

When one is a newb, breaking in a new bike, or just taking it slow it clearly vexes cagers who rather expect all bikes to be ridden by suicidal teen boys or outlaw meth-heads.

This is your second post that posits the inexperience of a rider has something to do with how cagers choose to behave around them - apparently giving the average cage driver a massive amount of discernment regarding MC riders they do not get - almost literally - from anyone else in the world.

But, I think you are saying you believe cagers tend to behave more cautiously around seen motorcyclists.

The corollary being that cagers are more likely to drive less cautiously  - perhaps even aggressively or recklessly - in the absence of motorcycles (or seen motorcycles.)

Yes?

[NightHawked]

If I may, an observation or better might be a thought. Early on I thought that many drivers did not see me, when pulling out. I have given some thought that they see me but can't judge my speed, how soon I will be upon them, so they pull out.

[Bumblebee]

The corollary being that cagers are more likely to drive less cautiously  - perhaps even aggressively or recklessly - in the absence of motorcycles (or seen motorcycles.)

It's more along the lines of experienced sensible riders know how to keep cagers out of their safety buffer therefore the perceived risks are lower. The cages appear less aggressive around those motorcycles because the rider will not allow the cage to get into an aggressive type position to start with.

While safer in my car, I can't help but wonder if I am managing more "potential mishaps" more regularly than I do when I am on a bike.

Or that you are aware of those situations occurring. As a low time rider, you are putting a lot of brain power into just maintaining control of the motorcycle and not crashing than you do as an experienced cage driver. That extra concentration on riding is keeping you from noticing what is really going on around you.

Cagers do not adjust their behavior based on your vehicle unless, and then only sometimes, you are considerably bigger than they are and even then they're quite negligent. In general, they do the same things with the same level of aggression or wreckless behavior whether I'm on the motorcycle or driving a 5 ton motorhome.


It takes about 2 years of regular riding experience to obtain good situational awareness. Until then, you are missing a lot of things that are happening around you that you really need to know about.

[Wearyeyed]

Cagers do not adjust their behavior based on your vehicle unless, and then only sometimes, you are considerably bigger than they are and even then they're quite negligent.

As the resident guru, I humbly offer you free use of my 2000 Honda Insight for regular use in the midwest.  :P

Actually, my 06 Honda S2000 would be a telling experience, too.

Which brings me to another thought experiment...as rider experience - and thus confidence improves - does a common reduction in "conservative-ness" influence the drivers around you?

[Messorius]

The corollary being that cagers are more likely to drive less cautiously  - perhaps even aggressively or recklessly - in the absence of motorcycles (or seen motorcycles.)

It's more along the lines of experienced sensible riders know how to keep cagers out of their safety buffer therefore the perceived risks are lower. The cages appear less aggressive around those motorcycles because the rider will not allow the cage to get into an aggressive type position to start with.

While safer in my car, I can't help but wonder if I am managing more "potential mishaps" more regularly than I do when I am on a bike.

Or that you are aware of those situations occurring. As a low time rider, you are putting a lot of brain power into just maintaining control of the motorcycle and not crashing than you do as an experienced cage driver. That extra concentration on riding is keeping you from noticing what is really going on around you.

Cagers do not adjust their behavior based on your vehicle unless, and then only sometimes, you are considerably bigger than they are and even then they're quite negligent. In general, they do the same things with the same level of aggression or wreckless behavior whether I'm on the motorcycle or driving a 5 ton motorhome.


It takes about 2 years of regular riding experience to obtain good situational awareness. Until then, you are missing a lot of things that are happening around you that you really need to know about.

+1
When I first started it took me a week in the parking lot to unclench enough to remember I had things like mirrors, signal lights and a head that pivoted.

[Bumblebee]

When I first started it took me a week in the parking lot to unclench enough to remember I had things like mirrors, signal lights and a head that pivoted.

If I don't ride at least 3 times a week, I start forgetting that stuff and I've been riding since before a lot of people on this board were born.

Regular slow school proficiency riding in a parking lot is essential no matter how often you ride.

[gammer]

If I may just add something here (sorry, late to the party). I find that most cagers fall into 3 types of driving awareness:
The first and majority of the pie belongs the cagers who do not treat motorcyclists with any more awareness then they do anyone else. We are on the same level as everyone who share the road. They're not being dangerous to us, but they are not being extra cautious to us.
The second type is the cager who is aware of us. Usually a motorcyclists (past or present) driving their cage that day or perhaps someone who is just aware of us. They're the one's who give us lots of room and stay far back from us.
The last one you can probably guess, is the cager who is not aware of anything. Not only are they dangerous to motorcyclists, but to other cagers and to themselves. Maybe they're distracted while driving (cell phone, screaming kids in the back seat, etc) or maybe they are just bad drivers. Either way, I give them lots of room and/or get past them as soon as I can and its safe to do so.
And there are all kinds of factors that cause the % of these drivers to shift from one category to another.

[Option13]

You forgot the "GTF OFF OF MY ROAD YOU SCUM" catagory. Fortunately, I've never met one of these creatures, but I have seen some videos.

[happycommuter]

This is your second post that posits the inexperience of a rider has something to do with how cagers choose to behave around them - apparently giving the average cage driver a massive amount of discernment regarding MC riders they do not get -

I may be way off base, my perception skewed by the fact that beginning riders are more at the mercy of cager recognition than the more experienced rider.

But the analogy I'll use is one of a rapid animal.  Most people, with no real training or expertise, can detect an animal that 'doesn't look right' and they instinctively know the danger and stay away.  Likewise, I think most anyone picks up on someone that has shaky balance, lower speed, jerky motion etc.  Similarly, we can all usually tell the difference between a car that is just being driven slowly and one that has a lost/distracted/drunk/beginning driver in short order.

Oddly, the spazziness of the typical squid (or ricer in the case of cars) probably helps their visibility and ensures that they are more likely to run their own fool selves of the road, or into another vehicle, than to be crashed into.

[LOKi]

Most drivers are really not out to get you. It just seams that way. The problem is they don't see you. As you get a few more thousand miles under your belt putting yourself where you are visible becomes second nature.

If you where to fallow me in traffic you would notice a few things. First when there is no immediate threat I'm straight as an arrow. I ride near the center line so I can see ahead of the car in front of me and have a path to escape any unexpected situations. I'll switch sides of the lane depending on what traffic is doing around me but I never ride in the middle of the lane. When there are no cars around and a cage approaches an intersection where their path might cross mine I swerve back and forth in my lane. Swerving draws attention and helps gauge how far away I am and how fast I am going.

For the most part I find people generally are a little more cautious around bikes. They are unknown objects with unknown handling capabilities. It might not seem like it but people really don't want to kill anyone. Most cagers realize that if they run over a bike there is nothing there to protect the rider and they would probably die.

[Poligrafovich]

I live not only close to a Major American Motorcycle Manufacturer, but in one of the outlying areas most favored by recreational riders. There are a LOT of motorcycles on the roads around here. When you drive through a residential area and see an open garage door there's a good chance you'll see a bike or two inside.

A higher motorcycle density means more cages driven by someone who either rides his/herself or knows someone who does, presumably making them a bit more likely to be conscious of bikes around them. Entirely subjective of course, but I cannot help but suspect car traffic here is about as motorcycle-friendly as it gets.

Living in different parts of the country I've noticed traffic has widely different "personalities" depending on where you are. I used to live (but not ride) in NJ and am mightily impressed that HC can handle such an environment. I think I've really got it good here.

Still gotta ride like they're all out to get you, of course - it only takes one!

[gammer]

Still gotta ride like they're all out to get you, of course - it only takes one!

= Defensive driving. Can't go wrong with defensive driving.

[Wearyeyed]

I stand by my observations.

When they have identified a bike, drivers are more likely to operate with increased caution than they would strictly in the presence of other cages, or where they have *not* identified a bike.

In a car, and absent an identified bike, drivers are more likely to be less cautious, even to the point of driving more aggressively in their own estimation of "managing all the *other* bad drivers on the road."

Ultimately, I agree that there are three generally distinct drivers as it relates to motorcyclists:

1) Those that see bikes, and accommodate them
2) Those that see bikes, and do not accommodate them
3) Those that do not see bikes (which includes being distracted where they might *see* you, but not consciously), and thus accommodate them - or not - strictly by chance.

Overwhelmingly, when I observe cagers absent bikers (and particularly in traffic), the degree of aggressiveness is higher vs. in the presence of a bike.