Crashproofing and thinking outside the box (long)

[Bumblebee]

I've been bouncing an idea around here for a couple weeks and wondering what others might think...particularly others who like myself are full members of the Face Plant Society.

I work in live theatre which means we sew regularly with industrial sewing machines on all sorts of materials ranging from very delicate fine lacy stuff to destroy proof heavy duty canvass that you're tempted to cut with a table saw. I've also taken a costume construction/sewing class (oh sheesh, note to self, I have to go teach that class TU/TH of next week) and have put together stuff for myself that is nearly indestructable. My instructor said if she hadn't seen me make the stuff, she would have accused me of cheating and having someone else do it. IOW I have a pretty good idea what I'm looking at when I look at clothing of any kind.

I have a FG Kili Air jacket and FG Air mesh pants. I've been looking at them very very closely off and on for a few months. I've seen of a lot of other crash gear and it's pretty much the same way.

Here's what I'm seeing:

Zippers are standard run of the mill generic two way zippers you can find nearly anywhere. Snaps are off the shelf heavy duty snaps. Velcro is generic velcro. The stitching is single row stitching (no double or triple row of stitching for added strength. The thread used everywhere is generic thread you can find at the local cloth store along with everything else mentioned so far. The thread actually scares me more than anything else because that holds everything together and I have matched it with stock thread that you get at the local cloth store.
The mesh and non mesh material is readily available stock higher abrasion resistant materials. It's real easy to work and there's nothing magic or impressive about it. Crash foam, um, I haven't been overly impressed with that since I first saw it..it works however I'm not impressed unless additional armor is used as well. Reflective material is a joke at best. (Sorry dudes, little thin piping is useless in the dark, we need big 2 inch wide strips of nuclear glow in the dark stuff to be seen)

The sewing techniques used are run of the mill slightly above entry level skill work. It's far superior to what you find at walmart or anywhere else for generic clothes but the methods used are exactly what you learn in any 100 level sewing class. They didn't even go out of the way to double up thread rows or even tighten the stitching up for more strength. What I'm seeing is just not impressive or magical or overly clever for that matter. It's just glorified clothing of slightly above average construction methods. I fully intend to take my gear in and toss it on the cutting table in front of the instructor and see what she says about it in a month or two when we have time. She really knows her stuff and I expect the analysis will be about what my current opinion is. Seriously, this is run of the mill work.

I hate the selection of crash gear out there for the most part. Half the stuff looks like something you'd find at a carnival - it's hideous, it really is. The other 45% is pitch frigging black. The remaining 5% or less is actually presentable and looks well built. Construction and crash quality is all over the board ranging from you gotta be kidding me to nuke proof. The whole concept of something like "joe rocket" written in big letters is a big turn off for me. (Get rid of the huge labels you morons and I'll buy your stuff, otherwise forgetaboutit) It took forever to find the Bumblebee crash gear I currently wear and even then it's still lacking in the conspicuity department.


So... All of the materials and fasteners of the same quality and higher are readily available. I can take the best aspects of what's on on the shelf at the motorcycle shops and integrate them into a single jacket and pants. I would have total control over color, reflectivity, ventilation, waterpoofing, sewing methods, impact protection, better thread, overall appearance and custom fit for my pink squishy body. Pattern making for such a project is a no brainer. My current sewing skills exceed what was put into the crash gear that's hanging in my closet that I depend on every time I mount up. Seriously I have done better work myself. IOW I can duplicate what I have currently have and still come out with better built gear.

In a couple years when I'm ready for new gear and have my own industrial sewing machine in the workshop...you see where this is going. Money is not a consideration. Time to build is not a consideration. Getting what I want and need and having proper protection so I can get up unharmed or minimal injury and walk away from a tumble off is the goal.

It's your turn now:
Give me five good valid legitimate reasons I should not seriously consider constructing my own crash gear for myself.

[dbracing]

I can't think of one reason not to make your own. If I had the skills, I would do the same for myself. The security of knowing what you have is priceless.

[FAITHBIKER]

Well...coming from an insurance point of view.  Do you have coverage on your policy for your safety apparrell?  I know the policies that I sell on a daily basis does.  You may have a hard time getting any coverage for the stuff you make yourself.  However...your safety is way more important than any money you can get from your insurance company if you even have coverage for your safety apparrell.  Ok, there's my not so great ruling.  

[hang man]

Well i like the idea  , it would be a hell of a lot better making your own and knowing exactly what's backing you up but i don't believe there is any such thing as Crash Proof  (maybe Resistant better than the standard)....BTW i think people would be bugging you to buy  some for themselves and you'll be so occupied that you won't have time left to 

[Bumblebee]

Faithbiker, Insurance isn't a consideration. (cover your own home made gear hahhahaha I'd get laughed out of the building) As it is, I pay the same rate if I'm wearing totally nuke proof gear or riding completely naked. The gear isn't covered under the liability only policy anyway. As I see it, crash gear is a one time payment life insurance policy and I'm willing to fork out full expenses on the next set if necessary. BTW, if you're in the motorcycle insurance coverage business, I may be looking around when I get the GSA in a year or two...just a thought.

Hangman, Crash proof/resistant, whatever the current terminology is. The idea is to have more reliable better fit gear on than I can buy thus increasing my chances of walking away afterward. Heck, just a couple extra tension straps on the arms of what I have would go a long way. Making and selling isn't an option. Too much hassle and too many liability issues in today's get hurt win the lottery cultural mindset. I'd just make a few pieces of reliable gear for myself only and sadly everyone else would have to remain envious.

[fishmeister]

If you are only making them for yourself, then what's the point?

[Bumblebee]

If you are only making them for yourself, then what's the point?

So I can get exactly what I want, it'll fit properly and increase my chances of survival if things get out of hand.

[happycommuter]

I have to agree that the bulk of mass-produced gear is of barely tolerable quality.  I've crashed First Gear Mesh-Tex and your fears about the stitching are correct: the zipper seam pretty much tore right out.

I'm no seamstress, but you're surely looking at a couple tries to perfect the fit.  The thing is meant to be sat in with raised arms but must allow a full range of motion without flapping in the wind or allowing armor to shift.

It won't be as waterproof as the cheapest weatherproof liner unless you really do have access to somewhat exotic fabrics and sealing methods.

Otherwise, bespoke riding gear seems like a dream.  I know you can get custom leathers, but I'm more into textile and mesh.  I had a pair of Bates Fastlane boots made for me, and they screwed up royally.  My Roadcrafter is pretty darn good, but something equivalent tweaked for my body and preferences

[fishmeister]

Just put wheels on it like the body racer. Then you can continue rolling.

[FAITHBIKER]

Yeah, check out Foremost Insurance.  We're specialty lines only, no auto for us at all, so you get the adjusters who know what they're talking about.  Of course I'm a little bit biased, but I've not heard of many comparable companies, and I've heard alot of peoples opinions on some of the other companies.  Check them out at www.foremost.com.  I'm just a peon, so I don't get anything for refering you, but check it out!

[CraigF]

Bumblebee, I say go for it.  And tell me where to send my size info. 

I, too, can't stand most of the attire out there, especially the large logo emblazoned jackets.

Have you had your hands on Aerostich gear?   How's the construction compare to FirstGear in your opinion?     

[Bumblebee]

Faithbiker, thanks. I'll likely be knocking on your door when I start the GSA purchase process to review the options. I filed that information in my GSA research directory.

Have you had your hands on Aerostich gear?   How's the construction compare to FirstGear in your opinion?

Sorry. Making gear for others is completely out of the question until someone shoots every single last lawyer and jury in this country then someone with brains and good judgement rewrites all the rules. Otherwise that would open me up too way too much liability even if someone's crash and resulting injuries had absolutely nothing to do with the reliability of the gear. I've seen too many aviation related shops get boogalooed to smitereens when a crash had absolutely nothing to do with their product or service. (The instrument vacuum pump and after market carburetor industries comes to mind)

I'll be a while before I consider starting on the project. I fulltime in a motorhome and currently don't have the facilities for such a project. A friend and I are considering buying a piece of land in about a year or two and I'll put up a support building/workshop for us to use when we're there where I could do the work. I have looked around enough to know the project is doable and I'm seeing if others can come up with a legitimate reason to tell me why I'm screaming bonkers insane for even thinking about a safety critical project like this. When I get all my homework done and am prepared to start, I'll move the discussion over to the advrider group to set myself up for a sound beating and see where that takes me.

I have touched Aerostitch in person though it was a while back. I haven't looked at it from a construction point of view though because I wasn't smart enough at the time. It looked decently solid and I've heard it's pretty good things about it (including from people who tumbled off while wearing it) however I want to get my hands on it to look closely. This is just a small part of the research I would do before I start drawing up a prototype.

For anyone that hasn't made anything in general before, trust me, there's a lot more to putting something together than just drafting up a pattern, cutting and sewing..especially when it's directly related to safety. This project would involve at least one and probably two completely unrideable pattern sizing prototypes. Another full up riding materials prototype that would get crash tested (adequately weighted without anyone in it) out the back of the jeep at speed. Depending on the results of that, either another set of test gear or actual useable gear would be made. Like I said, this is about safety and getting what I want, not about money. The first version of custom building anything is usually way more expensive than going to the store and buying the mass produced similar stuff.

[hang man]

Just a thought on your project ....Leather Jackets are plenty out there and very well built ones so how about making jeans that have heavy duty leather sewn on the inside of the pant  and at all around critical areas of impact !! ..another one was brainstormed by Detbuzard and the heated vest ...how about also making your gear without liners and have the heating elements directly built into the outfit ( i know that it would drain the battery but if you had a separate charged battery in your luggage/rack you could get up to 1 hour of toasty ridin without messin up your main)

[Bumblebee]

Just a thought on your project

I have a problem with excess heat. Sub zero, no biggie. 100+F and all leather and I'll likely heat stroke out in under 5 minutes.

I have no intention of jean type material. I'm not concerned with looks off the bike and I have yet to run across jean material that I'd trust in a crash. The plan is overpants. The idea of heavy leather in the primary impact areas is a great idea though and noted for future reference.

I have a liner jacket/pants right now. Take the liner out and it's creepy loose. I'm thinking about reversing the concept and keep the crash protection against me and putting the liner or rain gear on the outside. It's much more sensible from an impact and typhoon point of view. The liner could have the heat system installed.

BTW, I had a crash gear discussion with my instructor today. It was an interesting conversation and analysis. The comments were not overly positive for something that's used to protect us in a crash. Good quality overall however not what she was expecting to see. We couldn't find double stitching anywhere. The thread is standard industrial thread, not the good high strength stuff. The techniques used are standard apparel construction methods. No tight stitching for increased strength. Nothing overly impressive other than using slightly unusual materials that are reasonably easy to work with a little practice and a good industrial sewing machine. Lots of other nit picking comments. Bottom line of the discussion: I need more practice but not anything overly excessive to take on such a project. Right now I could pretty much duplicate what I currently have if I take my time, don't get in a hurry and am willing to correct mistakes as I go along. I need to learn to sew the outer mesh material. (I found it interesting that she's actually sewn kevlar mesh before. I didn't see that one coming) The biggest problem she could see is locating a source for the crashworthy materials however that's nothing a little searching and a few phone calls couldn't take care of and she could find the source in a day or two when I needed it.
Kinda makes you go hmmmm doesn't it?