The 750 Nighthawk vs sport bike (600)

[TimmyJ]

What do I mean by that? Well, I mean OVERALL. I love my NH. I also love sport bikes and have been thinking about getting one in the spring, like a Gixxer 600 or CBR 600. I have been doing some research however, and it is giving me some pause.

Racing? Well, a 600 will beat a NH 750 (not by a lot though). It's 13,000 RPM's is much more than my NH's 8500. It's a close run, but the 600 will edge me by a second or more in the quarter no doubt (not a 500 though, I already raced a GS 500 F and beat him pretty good).

Seating position? Nighthawk hands down. It has its traditional (near) sportbike position with the gearshift and pegs somewhat back, far back from a cruiser. However, it also has a cruiser position with highway pegs for a comfortable ride.

Gas mileage: 750 NH gets 45 mpg, 600 gixxer, 25 mpg.

Tires: NH = 12,000 miles, Sportbike 600 = 4000 miles (3000 if ridden hard, that's terrible)

Oil: NH = 3,000 miles, sportbike = 2,000 miles

Chain/sprockets - NH = 40,000 miles, sportbike 600 = 20,000? (and has to be lubed every 1,000)

Radiator fluid - sportbike flush every year, check every 1,000 miles. NH, zero...air cooled

Maintenence schedule - Sportbike 600 - after the first 600 miles, then every 5,000 miles. 750 NH, every 40,000?

Am I wrong about my research or is the NH such a better overall value, that I should just forget the sportbike next spring?

PS I havent even mentioned insurance!

[ariwhiteboy]

Well, obviously this forum is going to be a little biased...


NH's are great all around bikes...the newer sub liter sport bikes are amazing feats of engineering. Your comparison seems to be pretty accurate, but I think your "racing" may be a little anecdotal. One thing you aren't mentioning is the power to weight ratio of these bikes, which makes all the difference when it comes to performance.

Rough Numbers gleaned from the interweb:

1995 Nighthawk:

75hp
47ft/lbs torque
463 lbs wet

2011 GSXR 600

124hp
53ft/lbs torque
412 lbs wet

50hp and 40lbs difference is monumental when you're talking two wheels. I've also always heard that 5lbs of weight is roughly equal to the effect of 1hp. If that's the case the GSXR performs like a NH with an additional 90hp....which would be quite fun.

On paper it's no contest performance wise...even my bike can't keep up with modern sport bikes, they're just too light an fast. Any edge you have is purely rider skill at this point in the game.

IMO keep the NH...less (almost zero) maintenance and much better suited for long rides. If I had a smaller sport bike, it would be purely for track days.   

[flynrider]

  With regards to racing, if you're referring to actual racing on a road course, the Gixxer and CBR will leave the Nighthawk waaaayy behind.  Even when ridden by inferior riders.    The one thing that sport bikes have going for them is that they are specifically designed for racing.   IMHO, that's the only thing they're really good for.

   When you look at power/weight ratio, handling, suspension and brakes, the NH is not even in the same class when it comes to racing.   So, if you want to race, you'd do better on a bike that is suited to that purpose.  If you want a bike that is reliable, low maintenance, suitable for long trips, comfortable and seats two comfortably, it's hard to beat a Nighthawk.

[Laminar]

Gas mileage: 750 NH gets 45 mpg, 600 gixxer, 25 mpg.

What? Any fuel injected 600cc sportbike will easily get over 40, no problem.

Tires: NH = 12,000 miles, Sportbike 600 = 4000 miles (3000 if ridden hard, that's terrible)

Depends entirely on the tire. You can get tires for the Nighthawk that will only last you 5000 miles, and you can get sportbike tires that will last 10,000-15,000 miles.

Oil: NH = 3,000 miles, sportbike = 2,000 miles

Depends on the bike manufacturer, riding conditions, oil used, etc. and can vary either way.

Chain/sprockets - NH = 40,000 miles, sportbike 600 = 20,000? (and has to be lubed every 1,000)

A chain is a chain is a chain. All need similar maintenance and replacement.

Radiator fluid - sportbike flush every year, check every 1,000 miles. NH, zero...air cooled

Air cooling is typically a plus, unless you spend a lot of time in slow traffic in hot weather.

Maintenence schedule - Sportbike 600 - after the first 600 miles, then every 5,000 miles. 750 NH, every 40,000?

What's "maintenance?" A Nighthawk needs regular oil changes, spark plugs, chain lubing/replacement, air filter, etc., just like any other bike will.

Am I wrong about my research or is the NH such a better overall value, that I should just forget the sportbike next spring?

Apples and oranges. It depends entirely on what you want out of the bike.

[hppants]

Apples and oranges. It depends entirely on what you want out of the bike.

+1000  The NH does nothing perfectly, but does everything fairly well, and a few things really well.  It's a great compromise bike for the rider that wants to go around town, day trip on the weekend, and even do some moderate touring.  It's large enough for 2-up riding on short trips, and with dual-sport tires, even makes a decent fire road bike.

The sportbike does only one thing extremely well - track days and drag racing.  If I could have 10 bikes, and had resources to go to track days, there is no doubt one of my bikes would be a crotch rocket.  But until then, NO way.

Very few riders could ride a sportbike more than 100 miles at a stretch, and more than 200 miles in a day.  However, many can (and do) ride a NH 500+ miles in a day with no problem.

The others are right.  A 600 cc sportbike will run the 1/4 mile in the high 10's to low 11's.  1 - 1 1/2 seconds at the top end translates to a big a$$ whipping.  The NH is quick, but it's no contest.

I doubt that anyone could get 40K out of a NH chain and spockets regardless of how easy they ride it.  25K - all day long, 30K possibly.  40K - very doubtful.

[TimmyJ]

All of you make very good points.

I love comparing apples and oranges as it makes for interesting debate. However, it is also nessacary when considering the two bikes.

Of course the gixxer or CBR (or Ninja or R1) is faster, even with 150 less cc's. Not by a long shot, but by a serious time. I have seen 750 Nighthawk quarter times at sea level @ 12.29 which is very respectable. But sport bike 600cc can (as you have mentioned) do low 11's, and even very high 10's. So yes, a second or second and a half in a quarter is a big difference, I'm not debating that. What I am saying is the NH is still respectably quick, and when you add in how much less maintainece is needed compared to a sport bike, the better gas milage, and how much less insurance is, the NH is a clear winner (IMO).

But the sportbikes are damn cool, I'd still like to have one but it will cost big $$ on many levels.

[Munkey]

Not sure I understand the purpose of this thread. We all know the differences between sport bikes and nighthawks. Don't see the purpoase of that debate.

You really want a sport bike and need us to talk you out of it?

Get the bike that you want, not the bike anyone else wants you to have.

[hutru01]

What do I mean by that? Well, I mean OVERALL. I love my NH. I also love sport bikes and have been thinking about getting one in the spring, like a Gixxer 600 or CBR 600. I have been doing some research however, and it is giving me some pause.

Racing? Well, a 600 well beat a NH 750 (not by a lot though). It's 13,000 RPM's is much more than my NH's 8500. It's a close run, but the 600 will edge me no doubt (not a 500 though, I already raced a GS 500 F and destroyed him badley).

Seating position? Nighthawk hands down. It has its traditional (near) sportbike position with the gearshift and pegs somewhat back, far back from a cruiser. However, it also has a cruiser position with highway pegs for a comfortable ride.

Gas mileage: 750 NH gets 45 mpg, 600 gixxer, 25 mpg.

Tires: NH = 12,000 miles, Sportbike 600 = 4000 miles (3000 if ridden hard, that's terrible)

Oil: NH = 3,000 miles, sportbike = 2,000 miles

Chain/sprockets - NH = 40,000 miles, sportbike 600 = 20,000? (and has to be lubed every 1,000)

Radiator fluid - sportbike flush every year, check every 1,000 miles. NH, zero...air cooled

Maintenence schedule - Sportbike 600 - after the first 600 miles, then every 5,000 miles. 750 NH, every 40,000?

Am I wrong about my research or is the NH such a better overall value, that I should just forget the sportbike next spring?

PS I havent even mentioned insurance!

There are other bikes out there that will perform like a sport bike without the uncomfortable riding positions of a Gixxer or CBR.  I am with you on this debate.  I am in the market for something more sportier.  A few bikes you might want to maybe consider would be the Triumph Street Triple, Aprilia Tuomo, Suzuki SV Series, Suzuki Bandit....just to name a few.

I have had my eyes on a Triumph Street Triple since I started riding.

[twoone60]

Drive chain.    Nighthawk have drive chains?  I have  looked and can't find one on mine.
  But I only have a 700 not a 750.

[Bumblebee]

Drive chain.    Nighthawk have drive chains?  I have  looked and can't find one on mine.

It depends on the specific model and year. Some do. Some don't.

[muttstang]

there are sporty bikes that have a comfy riding position as well though....

kawasaki en-650
kawasaki 750. (think mid sized bandit)
honda VFR
honda 919
honda 599
suzuki bandit
suzuki sv650


all of these bikes will be much more utilitarian then a traditional sport bike

[martian]

Sounds like somebody needs a ZRX...



When a nighthawk just isn't enough - but you can't afford the chiropractor bills from a sportbike!

[Laminar]

What I am saying is the NH is still respectably quick, and when you add in how much less maintainece is needed compared to a sport bike, the better gas milage, and how much less insurance is, the NH is a clear winner (IMO).

I didn't know that we had all agreed with you on those points. Maintenance and gas mileage are similar.

[green427]

Regarding the engine RPM redlines...even though the NH's is "only" 8500, it is a tradeoff for having hydraulic valve lifters that don't need to be adjusted. Many, if not most motorcycle engines need valve adjustment every few thousand miles.

[Option13]

Regarding the engine RPM redlines...even though the NH's is "only" 8500, it is a tradeoff for having hydraulic valve lifters that don't need to be adjusted. Many, if not most motorcycle engines need valve adjustment every few thousand miles.

The 650 and 550 rev to 10.5K RPM, and the 700S goes a little bit higher if I remember correctly. All three have hydraulic lifters.

[Falban]

Sounds like somebody needs a ZRX...



When a nighthawk just isn't enough - but you can't afford the chiropractor bills from a sportbike!

  I never knew...

[twoone60]

My 700 has a red line of 10750.  There is a large power increase from about 8000 up.
  Almost feels like hitting the power band a on a two stroke!!

[Option13]

My 700 has a red line of 10750.  There is a large power increase from about 8000 up.
  Almost feels like hitting the power band a on a two stroke!!

Same with the 650 and 550 - the 80's full size Nighthawks are real screamers.

It's not just a two stroke that has a powerband. Turbos too, and of course...

[superUPer]

I'm not knocking either bike, both styles are fun, but here's my experience with each...

A couple things... I currently ride a 2004 Kawi zx6r. Gas mileage is better than my 84 700s. It's more comfortable at 60mph+ because of the fairings, you're not fighting the wind. Very uncomfortable around town in stop and go. Kawi is much cheaper for me to run (I only paid 1500 for it, needed nothing). It has never let me down , always starts and gets me around. The 700s has given me some trouble. The 700s cost me 900 plus about 500 in parts made of unobtainium. It still needs work. Insurance on the Kawi is about 250 for 6 months. About double the Hawk, but still cheaper than my POS 1994 nissan sentra.

Just realized I'm comparing an 84 to 04...
I'd still love to continue fixing up the 700s but I think something like a newer SV would be perfect for me

If you're looking for a sportbike, a cbr f2 or f3 would be worth checking out. Not so aggressive body position (compared with newer bikes) and they have a great reputation for being reliable while still very competitive.

[ariwhiteboy]

VFRs are cool too. JordanA has one and I got to ride it at Deal's Gap. 

[AmericanClassic]

The obvious answer is an SV650.

Or the Kawasaki 650 Ninja (not the zx6, but the more upright one)

or if you have the cash, a VFR

[muttstang]

the VFR is dead sexy.....

the kawasaki 650 isn't too bad either (the inline twin)

[TimmyJ]

What I am saying is the NH is still respectably quick, and when you add in how much less maintainece is needed compared to a sport bike, the better gas milage, and how much less insurance is, the NH is a clear winner (IMO).

I didn't know that we had all agreed with you on those points. Maintenance and gas mileage are similar.

No way. A bike with a 13,000 RPM is going to burn up oil and gas faster than a bike with 8,500 RPM. And I can give you the quote I got from my insurance here in Tenn. 3,000 dollars for the sport bike compared to 144 dollars for the NH. I have tickets on my record though, that may have something to do with it.

[ariwhiteboy]

I can give you the quote I got from my insurance here in Tenn. 3,000 dollars for the sport bike compared to 144 dollars for the NH. I have tickets on my record though, that may have something to do with it.

Ya think...

 

[twoone60]

What I am saying is the NH is still respectably quick, and when you add in how much less maintainece is needed compared to a sport bike, the better gas milage, and how much less insurance is, the NH is a clear winner (IMO).

I didn't know that we had all agreed with you on those points. Maintenance and gas mileage are similar.

No way. A bike with a 13,000 RPM is going to burn up oil and gas faster than a bike with 8,500 RPM. And I can give you the quote I got from my insurance here in Tenn. 3,000 dollars for the sport bike compared to 144 dollars for the NH. I have tickets on my record though, that may have something to do with it.

  The 700 has a 10750 red line and I think the 750 has 8500.  But at 60 MPH they both turn about the same rpm in top gear.
700s in 6th  4373rpm     750  in 5th 4344rpm
I am getting about 45 mpg and I have read of 750s that get similar mpg.