falling, wrecking, laying one down...

[jshirlemy]

if or when?

I like hearing what people have to say about this...

[happycommuter]

I think you should avoid all three.

[jshirlemy]

Agreed.
so far i've done a pretty good job.

i was just curious if any of the older folks have made it this far with out a scratch.

[ariwhiteboy]

so far i've done a pretty good job.

Sorry...now you will crash.

I've been in a pretty major accident and my fair share of spill/close calls.

I 100% feel it's not IF you go down but WHEN and how hard. Anyone who brags to me that they've never had a wreck I immediately question their saddle time/miles. Wear the gear...there's NO reason not to.

[jshirlemy]

I definitely don't think I'm invincible. I always wear protective gear.

It makes me nervous just seeing someone riding around without a helmet...

[Bumblebee]

Happycommuter is correct. Do absolutely everything possible to avoid those situations. That starts with regular proficiency training and always training to a higher standard. And wear the gear for when you run out of solutions before you run out of problems.

(On an aside: Honestly though I have absolutely no idea how to deliberately lay a motorcycle down or any real world justification whatsoever for doing so even if you knew how)

so far i've done a pretty good job.

Oh sheesh. Hasn't anyone told you to not say things like that? The motorcycle gods will have you sliding on your nose on the proverbial 4-grit belt sander for comments like that.

You likely just haven't had to deal with an actual high risk situation yet.

ATGATT and that includes a full face helmet.


<--- Faceplant Club Member. Best advice: Do not join, the membership fee is brutal.

[page62]

WHEN.

There's always that situation you simply can't control. Like when a deer jumped in front of me with absolutely no warning. And yes, 4-grit sandpaper is very effective on skin...

[hppants]

I've crashed 3 times.  That does not make me an expert, and I hope I never do it again.

The first crash occurred because I was riding too fast for the conditions and my ability.  I had been riding the area a while and was gettting progressively more aggressive during the day.  I got in way over my head, and in an unmarked decreasing radius turn, I lowsided the bike because I did not position my body to make the turn, and I applied the rear brake which is asking for it.

The second crash occurred because I failed to acknowledge that roads are especially slippery after it starts to rain.  I had very limited wet weather riding experience, I was tired from riding all day, and I was thinking about how to wiggle out of the obvious butt chewing I was going to get from SOQS because I was several hours late for a date with her.  In a left hand curve, the bike slid out from under me and I low-sided on the pavement.

The 3rd crash occurred because I had the audacity to assume what another motorist was going to do.  I was rapidly approaching a vehicle in front of me that had is blinkers on and was beginning to negociate a left hand turn.  I thought no need to slow down because he will be long away by the time I get to him.  Well, his turn was going much slower than that, and I had very little choices to avoid rear-ending him.  In a panic, I fishtailed the bike twice, lost control, and slid down the belt sander for quite a while.

But looking at all 3 crashes collectively, I can share this:

1.  ATGATT absoutely works.  To date, I have yet to get ONE PEBBLE on my skin.  I did have some bruised ribs from the 2nd crash, but otherwise, no real injury to speak of.  Wear the gear my friends - it may save your life.  My new jacket is high-vis yellow and my next helmet might be hot pink.  I'm convinced that contrasting colors is a plus.

2.  All 3 crashes occurred because I wasn't mentally trained to handle the root cause of the situation.  I now try to take 10-15 minutes a month to parking lot practice.  This includes slow speed maneuvers and even a couple of higher speed exercises in quickly shifting the bike.  Also, while all 3 were low sides, I had no say in the matter.  The "art" of "laying it down to avoid something worse" is pure balony IMNSHO.  When it becomes apparent that you are going down, that's it.

3.  I have resolved myself to the fact that I am not as good a rider as I think I am.  I can't (and won't) keep up with the squids.  I have turned my ridng down about 5 notches.  I'm addicted to twisty riding, but now I don't ride like a mad man.  I do lean the bike over a bit now and then, but I pick my moments and bide my time.  I wait for conditions to be favorable for this.  Also now, if I find myself riding more aggressively, I stop, take a break, and let the adrenaline wane a little.

4.  Lane position is critical IMO.  Important in the curves and important in the straights.  N5TBU taught me to weave a little in my lane when oncoming or perpendicular traffic presents itself.  It works - I know they see me because they move over when I do that.

5.  Choosing WHO you ride with is important too.  If the others ride more aggresively, let them lead or break off and go in a different direction.  A pre-ride safety meeting is a big deal for me.  Especially if I'm riding with someone that I've never ridden with before.  Following distance and maintaining a stagger formation is critical - especially with new riders and riding with people that you don't know well.

6.  Listen to your friends that have been riding longer and farther than you - especially the full timers.  I've learned more from Coffee Brake, Loki, Soupskin, Ari, and Cmyers than just about anyone else.  Their experience is invaluable.

7.  Keep your bike well maintained.  Everything has to be working on the bike - everything is a potential crash.  But good tires may be the most important thing IMO.

Motorcycling is the only thing I do now that engages all of my senses, including that "6th sense".  I listen to that one the most when I'm riding.

[n5tbu]

Sorry to tell you this but,it's WHEN.

[drdubb]

Many of us here have been on the ground. Even if you are not physically hurt, its amazing how much it shakes your brain and confidence.

I did a high side b/c of a situation similar to hppants #5. I assumed a car was going to do something, it didn't. I was this occurred in the mountains and I was lucky to have a shoulder to slide into. 100 yrds either way I'd been sliding down the side of a mountain.

Last year I learned to ride my own ride. I used to try to keep up with the group. I realized it was too much work and above my comfort zone, so I slowed down and enjoyed riding much more. Its amazing how easy it is to fall into that trap.

I also am careful about when I ride. I don't ride at night, and I try to avoid late afternoons when the sun is low and some folks have had a beer or two. I don't commute, so I have that option.

Wear the gear. We all said it, but I know it saved my skin. I don't go to the corner store w/o full gear, full face helmet, pants, jacket, gloves, boots. Many guys believe jeans are enough, not so. If you don't believe that, run as fast as you can down the road and jump onto the asphalt.

[JB1290]

I was always told that there are 2 kinds of riders...

Those who have crashed...

And those who are going to crash.

I have crashed hard once and, I hope it never happens again.

[Falcon030]

Been down several times, hardest hit made me air borne.  I don't really like to talk about my twists with fate because it might end a good streak.  I would say wear a helmet, tuck in your shoe strings, the best gears are in your head.    Stay very alert, there are a lot of people out there that can't lay down cell phones when driving and your are JUST a none threat motorcycle,  this the reason I don't carry a concealed weapon.

[windrider]

O.K Sorry, can't leave this one alone.  There is one time, in my life anyway, when it was necessary to lay a bike down. I have had my share of off's, mainly dirt and motocross stuff. Been riding since I was 7 years old, and over 52 now.  Had some times of not riding, but never more than a few years.  

Now the story, in 1977, on a Honda CL175, (Scrambler), for those that may remember, came up on a blind corner, with a side road, and I knew was there, but it was a blind turn more or less.  Young and running about 10 over speed limit.  Speed limit 35.  As I came around the curve, there was a tractor trailer across the road, and in the ditch on the other side.  He was trying to make a left turn and not to clip curbing and signs.  His right front went down in a ditch and there he sat.  The Honda Cl 175 I was on was very light in the rear, and weak on front drum brakes, so when I knew I couldn't stop, I locked the rear, and went down left side.  I slide under the trailer part, which wasn't going to move in my 1.377 second observation, ......lol.  I was glad the landing gear was not going to be in my way.  

My fault? Maybe.  The road was off limits to trucks with more than three axles.  Did the driver know that, with a big sign posted at each end?  He does now.  It is off limits due to the sharp exit turn.  Had I been running slower could I have stopped?  Maybe.  Too many year ago to know or think about, 1972 they just barely had disk brakes on cars.

Reason for the story, there are times to lay a bike down.  When you are stupid, and come upon something you OBVIOUSLY can't get over, but have a chance getting UNDER, then the ground may be the better choice.  Some may argue, but I survived, and lived to ride another day, and another day, and another day...........All is well.

[Rebel13]

It's not a question of when, but luck! First off, 80% of riders can't ride to start with... it's a fact! I have been riding 19+ years/round and almost daily to records. Have I been in close calls, you bet your ass I have, that is part of the riding life! Every situation has their options an consequence. As posted above, windrider might have avoided the whole thing by going limit to start with... If you brake the rules, I feel no sorrow period. Follow the books! I admit, I don't follow myself at all times but, most! If something happens to me beyond the rules I won't say anything but what happened just to tell the tale.

In general, most riding is quick reflexes when they happen, preparing for all situations all the time, or just out riding not giving a damn.

What do you fall in?

It could be just me, but I'm cautious. I have never crashed any type of vehicle, 1 or + wheels ever! And no I'm no granny driver, I'm actually the one that rides asses when they are going to slow or break the rules like cutting people off. I have bad road rage actually...It is not uncomon for me to be -2' away from a driver in front of me. I always plan an evacuation route before they can happen, tailgating or common ride anywhere.

Sure there is always the unavoidable, however it is not common as most people think! Most use that excuse to make them selfs look better. Most of the time the rider is doing something wrong to start with.

[tbante]

I dont even count my riding time back when I was in high school and college...........the only way I avoided getting hurt was pure dumb luck.
I then quit riding until I retired a couple years ago and when I got back into it I did a little research into the stats of motorcycle accidents. I figured if I found out what the typical accident scenarios are then I should avoid those situations and increase my chances statistically of surviving this endeavor.
1. The vast majority of accidents involve just the motorcycle.......in other words you control your own fate. Can you control the urge to go to fast? Which brings us to the next significant stat.
2. The vast majority of are loss of control primarily because of excessive speed. See a trend?
3. Suprisingly high number of accidents include alcohol.
4. Night riding is statistically dangerous. Add alcohol and speed to darkness and you wont live long.
5. Helmets save lives. Period.
6. In accidents involving another vehicle a very high percentage are cars turning left in front of the motorcycle.

I like putting the odds in my favor and by knowing what the stats are, I can do that. It doesnt make it totally safe but that is the nature of the beast.
During my flying career I payed close attention to accident reports...........I wanted to know what got guys into situations that resulted in accidents. A lot of guys who are a lot smarter than me got themselves killed by doing dumb stuff. Learning from other peoples mistakes (accident statistics) is a good habit to have in the motorcycle world.

[Ol School]

With my kids all grown I got back into rideing the same way tbante did .
yep everyone I knew that rode alot had a bad accident to top it off .
all would admit to me .....they had been drinking to much to be rideing .
group rideing for the newbe is something that will get you rideing above your abilitys in a hurry .....stay away from group rides for a while . ride often and ride your ride .
it helps alot if like me you have a twisty rd near the house to learn on ...with very little traffic .....this was a huge plus for me .
you should know what a dangerous intersection looks like ....cover your breaks when you see this type of intersection comming ....the extra brakeing time is a huge plus ....after you have been rideing the same bike for many miles ...covering the breaks comes second nature ....for the newbie or new to the bike the foot break is something you may find you have to look for .
never let anything a cage does supprise you .....I never even get mad when someone in a cage pulls out in front of me .....heck I expected it ....why should I be mad . it scares them more than it does me when they finally see me , maybe they will be more careful next time .

[happycommuter]

Since I was snarky at the top of this thread, I'll answer now that I've run off the road and into the dirt on two corners twice.  The second time I was actually sliding behind my bike by the time I left the road, but whatever.  Both times there was a rapid recognition that things could get real bad real fast and a determination to hold on as long as possible and make the very best of the situation.

Dropping bikes, dozens of times (only twice on the Nighthawk).  Inseam challenged, kind of forgetful with the side stand and prone to slippery, eneven pavement.  I quickly learned not to bother trying to stop the inevitable.  If the bike's going to fall, step aside and let it happen.  Straining and possibly injuring yourself to hopefully lessen the bike damage is futile.

Laying it down is giving up.  If I'd 'layed it down' on every close call I've had I'd need a few new bikes a year.