instant rear wheel slip and recovery

[mike20]

I just had an incident where my rear tire go loose while coming out of a parking lot and hitting the lane markers on the road. It was 3 am and 38 degrees here in Florida and I left work a little moody so I accelerated out of my turn and hit that stripe and boy I went for a ride. I never recovered or had time she just flung me off and went spinning away from me. I think it was caused by multiple things, cold tire, ice on the stripe in the road, and maybe some hard acceleration. Being a Floridian I'm not use to hitting that ice on the road.

[coffee_brake]

Wow, you ok?

[LOKi]

I think it was caused by multiple things, cold tire, ice on the stripe in the road, and maybe some hard acceleration. Being a Floridian I'm not use to hitting that ice on the road.

At 38* there should not be ice on the road. Even when it does dip below 32* it takes hours at that temperature to freeze roads. And only if there is water on them. What got you was the cold tires combined with hard acceleration. The stripe didn't help either but If the tires where warm then that alone probably would not be enough to toss you. I have done the same thing minus the flung off part. Glad your okay.

[mike20]

Yea I'm ok I wear a helmet and a first gear jacket. So only road rash was on my leg. No scratches on the brand new helmet though!!!!!! But bikes ok some scratches on tank and muffler and tore up hand grip grinded through the throttle slide to the handle bar.

[Bumblebee]

below 32* it takes hours at that temperature to freeze roads. And only if there is water on them.

Agreed. 38F is non event summer conditions.

And even then the heat from the subsurface must dissipate before the road will start to freeze. It takes days of low temperatures for that kind of heat to go away especially in places like FL. Snow will melt on contact with roads and stay unfrozen with ambient temperatures around +15F for a lot of hours if it's been warm the previous week.

So only road rash was on my leg.

Jeans are tissue paper at best. Get crash pants before you hurt yourself.
Also boots, motorcycle gloves and make absolutely certain you are wearing a full face helmet.

[mike20]

I wear gloves and a full face helmet. I also wear my military green airforce boots but I'm looking at a pair of motorcycle waterproof race boots. And crash pants? Where do I get them? And they have to be comfortable enough for being an overnight stocker for sams club.

[mattrowe19]

I have to disagree with you a little BB. Here in the NW, it's not uncommon for it to rain during the day and have the temps dip below freezing during the night. It makes for some slick streets in the morning. In wetter climates, like here, the moisture in the air will freeze on surfaces causing frost and sometimes ice.

[Laminar]

Overpants.

http://www.motorcyclegear.com

[mattrowe19]

Overpants.

http://www.motorcyclegear.com

+1000

I work in a warehouse that, during the summer, gets pretty hot. I wear shorts at work but, I throw my ridin pants over the shorts. Same thing in the winter over my jeans.

[Bumblebee]

Here in the NW, it's not uncommon for it to rain during the day and have the temps dip below freezing during the night. It makes for some slick streets in the morning. In wetter climates, like here, the moisture in the air will freeze on surfaces causing frost and sometimes ice.

What is the average 24 hour surface temperature? What is the overnight air temperature? Above or below freezing? And is the surface by 5 degrees that will drop to or below freezing overnight or 20+ degrees above freezing that will stay above 32F?

The surface the moisture gets on must be cold enough to freeze the moisture. If the road surface is above freezing, the unfrozen moisture will not freeze if it's taking on heat from the surface. Florida tends to run in the what? 40-55ish range? 38F is not going to create ice under those conditions without other unusual things going on.

Surface above freezing + air above freezing + water above freezing = wet, not ice. Slippery wet maybe due to water and road ick or painted stripes but not ice.

[mike20]

I'm looking into full race leathers with knee scrapers and back hump. Im the type of rider I ride it hard and really lean in corners. I'm actually looking into a couple track days. I know my 92 750 nighthawk isn't much of a sportbike but it's a fun bike for me and fast enough.

[mattrowe19]

What is the average 24 hour surface temperature? What is the overnight air temperature? Above or below freezing? And is the surface by 5 degrees that will drop to or below freezing overnight or 20+ degrees above freezing that will stay above 32F?

The surface the moisture gets on must be cold enough to freeze the moisture. If the road surface is above freezing, the unfrozen moisture will not freeze if it's taking on heat from the surface. Florida tends to run in the what? 40-55ish range? 38F is not going to create ice under those conditions without other unusual things going on.

Surface above freezing + air above freezing + water above freezing = wet, not ice. Slippery wet maybe due to water and road ick or painted stripes but not ice.

I definitely can't disagree with that. However, it's not unusual here to have daytime temps in the upper 30's-low 40's but as soon as the sub goes down you start seeing frost on surfaces. Overnight lows being in the upper 20's to low 30's. It doesn't take long, especially on side streets and shaded areas, for the frost to form. However, that wouldn't have been the case if the  temp was 38. Sounds like there was likely something else besides just being wet tht would have caused that to happen. Perhaps oil or something.

[Bumblebee]

However, it's not unusual here to have daytime temps in the upper 30's-low 40's but as soon as the sub goes down you start seeing frost on surfaces. Overnight lows being in the upper 20's to low 30's. It doesn't take long, especially on side streets and shaded areas, for the frost to form.

So what you're saying is the cold air temperature drives the surface temperature down to right at freezing as soon as the solar heating stops or after several hours. The underlying surface is cold soaked, not warm. Then the frost forms when the supercooled water drops touch the cold surface and dumps the last bit of energy that causes the water to freeze.
Note that small water drops (and even large ones in some conditions) suspended in the atmosphere can remain in a liquid state well below freezing until they touch a surface and are disturbed. At that point they freeze near instantly causing frost or ice depending on the drop size and dynamics. Warmer water drops just above freezing can touch a cold surface and suddenly freeze also. Rime ice on the leading edge airplane wings or on the antenna of your car is an example of this process.
FL with everything remaining well above freezing is a different environment.

We're saying the same thing with different words and different levels of observation/understanding of meteorological conditions.

[LOKi]

Sounds like there was likely something else besides just being wet tht would have caused that to happen. Perhaps oil or something.

Yes cold tires. Cold rubber does not grip like war rubber. Those tire warmers racers use keep the tires up around 160* (i think). I have noticed my rear will slip or drift a lot more when my tires are not up to temp.

[nhk750]

http://www.bikerspost.com/video/motorcycle-vs-car-drift-battle-2

[Soupskin]

I almost high sided a couple months ago.  Was coming out of a driveway, crossing the center to head left on the road.  Too much lean, too much throttle and when the cold tires crossed the center line, it broke loose.  When it caught, the bike flipped straight up and my butt was in the air.  Luckily, I managed to recover and took many deep breaths to calm the nerves.  Lesson learned.