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Author Topic: 60 to 0 in 10 seconds and smoke from the front brake!  (Read 831 times)
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rotomotor Topic starter
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« on: May 14, 2009, 07:39:22 PM »

When last we visited my front brake issue, I re-installed the new brake handle and everything seemed to go OK. Today, I was zooming down the highway in the left lane after driving 10-15 miles to do a job, and I was returning when all of the sudden, I realized that I was losing speed. I increased the throttle but still I was losing the battle. Not good, left lane  mad1 I was able to merge over 3 lanes to the shoulder through busy highway traffic, a burning smell is coming up from the bike, and I'm surrounded by cars. I got to the right shoulder just in time as the bike came to a halt. I shut off the engine and looked down to see the front brakes smoking. They had activated all on their own with no warning.

I got out my handy tool kit, removed and re-installed the lever, the brakes freed up again, and I was on my way. I had intended to drive the bike to one more destination but I decided to call it a day and put the bike in the garage. I used my car (I'M A CAGER!) for the rest of the day.

I called a local motorcycle mechanic and he said it is probably old brake fluid crystalizing, and that is preventing the calipers from doing their job, as if the brake lever was being pulled. I had just replaced the front brake lever so I thought it was related, and now that I think about it, how could it not be? Why does taking off the lever fix the problem? And, I am not over-tightening the bolt or nut when I install the lever. I am not ready to tear into a brake system because I am just a baby MC owner at this point. Seeing as I just bought the bike, I don't mind having it looked at by a professional just to make sure it's safe beyond the brake issue.

That was an intense 10 seconds and I was lucky I could get all the way over or I would have been stuck in a lane on the highway. NOT FUN! Hopefully, in a few days, the brakes and fork will be in top shape and I'll be on the road for further adventure  smiler What's a few hundred dollars in a recession anyway?
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'83 Nighthawk 650
fishmeister
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 07:44:28 PM »

              Might have been a little more than the handle with damage.

              Sure glad you came out ok!  You have an optimistic view to
              your dilemma, that's cool.
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Bumblebee
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 08:08:08 PM »

Preventing the calipers from doing their job? Sounds more like they were doing their job a bit too well if it brought you to a complete stop and wouldn't let go.

Crystallizing? Yea, sure. Hydraulic fluid is hydroscopic which means it readily absorbs water. That's why you have to keep it stored in an air tight container. Hydraulic fluid expands very little when heated. Water expands a lot when heated. Mix the two and apply heat and you get expansion..or it pushes the moveable brake pistons out of a fixed volume environment.

More likely you probably introduced air or moisture into the hydraulic system while doing the work then drove in the sun. Solar heating of the black brake hose with air or water in it will expand the air/water and clamp the binders on hard. Heating the brake pads up will transfer heat into the pistons and fluid also. Taking the lever off and reattach it probably relieved the pressure enough to ride again.

If the fluid is more than 3-4 years old at the most, dump the entire system completely, reload with all new hydraulic fluid and bleed it properly.

Anytime you do something to a hydraulic brake system, bleed the lines.

A few hundred $$ for hydraulic fluid?? Try an hour of effort and $10 at the very most...then again no one touches my machines with a wrench other than me. YMMV.
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 08:39:49 PM »

I agree with Bumblebee, there isn't really that much to doing the brakes yourself. It definitely sounds like moisture got into the system. Start by bleeding the system until you get rid of all the old fluid and get new DOT 3 fluid in there. If it takes 2 full bottles to do, you're still out less that $10 and an hour or so, and it's easy. This will also give you the chance to check the lines, banjo bolts, bleeder valve and master cylinder yourself so you know what is going on with the brakes.

A shop will likely charge you $80-90 per hr labor (it's on the high side, but that's what I just got hit with before I joined the no one touches my bike club). Also, at the shop they might not torque everything down properly, or do extra work that you don't wnat done, or worse. I'm not trying to scare you, but careless don't give a s???e mechanics scare me a little. There are plenty of people on here who will gladly help walk you through pretty much anything that needs done to your bike.

Just my $.02. Good luck man. And I'm glad that you did not get hurt.  thumb

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rotomotor Topic starter
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 09:00:33 PM »

I have a Clymer manual but I don't even own a torque wrench. The several hundred included the labor, any parts, and a carb sync too. I am not opposed to doing it myself but the most I have ever done on a car is change the oil, replace a battery, and put gas in. I have no experience with brakes, pads etc.

I'll look at the manual tonight and see if I can figure out where to start. I have only owned the bike for a week so any maintenance issues are from the last owner. I thought it was in road ready condition and test drove it without any problems (of course!)

My highest concern is my ignorance in doing the maintenance right. I don't mind messing up cosmetic issues but brakes have a lot to do with stopping the motorcycle  scratcher

I'm looking at tutorials on the Web, maybe I can do this  smiler
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 09:15:36 PM »

I would definitely vote that this is a moisture or air in the system related issue.

Bleed those bad boys, and bleed em good!
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 09:27:40 PM »

Quote
I'm looking at tutorials on the Web, maybe I can do this
That's the spirit  beer
Bleeding isn't the bad at all, just take your time and get all the old stuff out...you'll know when the bad is all gone and if there's air in there you will see bubbles coming out. Keep bleeding till all the funky fluid and bubbles are gone and you'll be good.

Do a search on this forum and you'll find some threads about bleeding systems. Honestly, it's something you should learn how to do anyway as normal maintenance. I check the brake fluid at least every week. Owning a motorcycle will teach you the need to learn at lest light maintenance...otherwise you'll go broke funding a shop  wacko
 beer

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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 10:05:20 PM »

I'm looking at tutorials on the Web, maybe I can do this  smiler

If you can attach a hose to a little valve, coordination to pull a lever while turning a little wrench about 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn, and pour liquid into a small container, you can bleed a hydraulic line.

Here's the basics for a quick and dirty hydraulic line (brake) bleed:

Tape a 1 inch thick block of anything you have laying around against the throttle to keep you from bottoming out the brake lever and over extending the master piston. When you pull the brake lever, the end of the lever should hit this block, not the hand grip.
Put a clear hose on the bleeder valve. Put the other end of the hose into a small container of some kind that will hold liquid.
Open the top reservoir at the master cylinder and fill it up.
Loosen the bleeder valve just a little then turn the wrench until it meets the first indication of resistance. You're going for about finger tight.
Squeeze the brake lever and release the bleeder valve while maintaining pressure on the lever until brake fluid flows out through the tube.
Don't loosen the valve any more than necessary.
Always maintain lever pressure while the valve is open. Squeeze gently, don't death grip it.
Just before the brake lever bottoms out against the block, close the bleeder valve.
Watch the hose while the valve is open, don't let the fluid flow back into the caliper. If you don't have enough lever left and it starts backward, close the valve and continue the process normally.
Repeat the last two steps about 15-20 times or so to purge the upper hydraulic line.
Keep an eye on the fluid level in the reservoir. Refill it when it reaches about half full.
Keep up the handle/valve process until there are no more bubbles or crud in the clear hose.
Go slow, go easy, don't get in a hurry. Once you start, don't stop until it's complete. (If you stop for lunch or anything in the middle of this process, any bubbles in the lines will work their way uphill and you'll be back at the beginning by the time you get back to work)
Once it's just fluid and no bubbles, close the valve securely, fill the reservoir and put the top back on the reservoir.
Check the brakes to verify they feel right then do a short check ride at low speed to check the brakes before you start operating at high speeds.
Done.

That will get the air purged out of the lines. That's all there is to it. No magic, no mystery tools, no PhD in fluid dynamics, no tenth rate clock watching technician to screw anything up. That's all there is to it.

If you have dual front brakes, the process changes a little bit however that's the basics of it.

To do it properly, you need to remove the brake caliper from the motorcycle, turn it upside down and dump all the fluid out and start from an empty caliper and brake line. A simple brake bleed will get air bubbles out however it won't really clear out the fluid in the lower chambers without taking forever.
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rotomotor Topic starter
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 10:27:24 PM »

Thanks Bumblebee!

I do believe that I have dual front brakes and I've read that you should start with the right side, what else in the process changes?
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 03:53:41 AM »

rotormotor

I was in a similar position to you in November last year with my first bike (luckily a 125) but I knew nothing more than what I helped my dad with on cars (oil, brake pads, general maintenance) but after talking to people on forums and just taking a sunny day to get greasy and hands on you soon get into the habbit of it and learn that its nowhere near as scary as you think and its very rewarding going for a ride after.

Even if you are just changing a CDi, chain, filter, oil etc
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