HELMET LAWS SUCK!!!

[soyavenger]

I recently moved from a state that had "limited" helmet laws to one that has mandatory helmet laws. I feel that what you do to yourself, and the ones you leave behind, is your own business, and the state should butt out. I realize that most on the board are pro-helmet, as am i, but thats our decision to make. Out of curiosity, whats everyone elses views on helmet LAWS?

[Hondo]

Discuss at will, barring political discussion of parties and such.

I myself have slid face first at 30 mph during an off and stood up uninjured at the end of the slide.

I was in full mesh, armored gear and was wearing a full faced helmet. I enjoy having a nose, chin, lips, teeth, 2 ears, skin, and an uninterrupted scalp covering an undamaged skull.

For those that think they look cool with head damage, have at it ( Unless I have to pay for your medical bills ).

[Bumblebee]

Helmet laws allow you to wear a beanie cap that doen't protect anything except the top of your head as long as it has DOT printed on it. And that is good enough protection to save you in a crash..or at least the illusion of protection is good enough for official safety purposes.

Reality says in absolutely no uncertain terms that anything short of a full face helmet is severely inadequate when the planet slams into one's head. Q.E.D.

Here's something the save you from yourself crowd misses: Head protection, even the best available in the form of full face which is not required or even encouraged, just protects your head and nothing else. If you add up total damage points, having your skin belt-sanded completely off can kill or severely mangle you just as badly as busting your head open on the pavement however no busybody groups concern themselves about body protection. It doesn't do any good to protect the head if total body damages exceeds the lethal limit. If they were truly concerned about safety........

Like Hondo, I too have slid face down on the 4-grit belt sander while wearing padded air mesh jacket/overpants, leather gloves, full face helmet and boots. I simply got up afterward totally unharmed in what would have otherwise been a nasty ride in the owie wagon - or likely worse based on the compression damage to the helmet padding. Trust me, there's nothing like watching and hearing the ground go by just inches in front of your nose while calmly thinking it's really nice to be inside all that gear than outside with that belt sander running.


Helmet laws can go beat dirt. I too don't like being told what to do.
You won't catch me or anyone I'm riding with without a full face helmet and full gear though.

ATGATT

[Burgi]

I don't care enough to lobby for or against. On a selfish note I am glad I live in a mandatory helmet state because I suspect my husband might slip off for short trips without his helmet if he could.
I wouldn't consider riding without no matter what the law. I was in a slow speed high side many years ago while on the back of my boyfriend's bike. Landed on the top of my head wearing a Bell Helmet. "Walked" away with a concussion, even though we were going slow and I landed in dirt. I am sure it would have been far worse without the helmet. That was enough for me.

[gammer]

As I've mentioned before, Canada has mandatory helmet laws. But, we also have universal health care that we all pay for...and I don't feel like paying for someone else's hospital bills because they think helmets are "not cool".

Interestingly, we've been getting hot temps/high humidity here in southern Ontario the last few days and I've contemplated ditching my padded jacket so I wouldn't get so hot...
I'm glad I didn't listen to that voice in my head; I've kept the jacket on.

[soyavenger]

I don't feel like paying for someone else's hospital bills because they think helmets are "not cool".

that was the "limited" helmet law in florida, you could ride without a helmet if you had a $20k health insurnance policy, so at least if you mush your melon, you pay for your own hosptalization. eye protection, on the other hand, is mandatory in fl.

im sure other states have similar laws, when i was driving to oregon, i didnt see any mention of helmet laws til i hit the oregon border and was greeted with a huge "helmet required" sign.

[Tryvelcro]

I've never been in a state without them, and I would never ride without one, so I don't really care if there's a helmet law.

[Custom82Hawk]

http://blackdeathhannibal.tripod.com/Suzuki/
That was the aftermath of me hitting a deer at 50-55 mph.  Check out my helmet and tell me again what you think about not wearing a helmet.  I've had coworkers here who went from partial helmets to full face after seeing the helmet or those pictures.

[happycommuter]

I stand by my answer that I gave over a year ago in the last ongoing helmet law thread.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[snuff217]

I always wear a helmet when I get on any bike, but I don't think it should be mandatory. If you want to get on a bike and kill yourself because you don't have the proper gear on, be my guest, just don't expect me to feel sorry for you afterwords. My uncle went down on his bike a little over a year ago, and he showed me the helmet and leather jacket he was wearing when he went down. Both definitely saved him from far worse injuries than he would have received if he hadn't been wearing them. So, yes I am a firm believer in wearing a helmet, but I also believe you should have the right not too if thats what you want.

[Sideways]

Just because people tell you to do something doesn't mean you have to do it. Make your own rules and live by them or die by them.
and If you don't like paying for other peoples medical bills, it's simple, just don't pay your taxes

[fishmeister]

I've never been in a state without them, and I would never ride without one, so I don't really care if there's a helmet law.

                                My feelings exactly.....couldn't be said better!     

[LOKi]

Louisiana repealed for a short time a while back. 'Motorcycle helmet use decreased significantly and motorcyclist fatality rates increased significantly after repeal of the Louisiana mandatory helmet law.' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15233389. Why care if idiots will ride without them? Well insurance for one. The more people killed doing something the more it cost to insure it. That's why it cost twice or three times as much to insure a GXSR than our Nighthawks. Gxxers are a favorite among squids therefore cost that much more to insure. Why? Because they crash more often. That effects us as well but not as much as a whole nation of idiots getting killed because of lack of helmet laws.

[MechaPumpkin]

Just because people tell you to do something doesn't mean you have to do it. Make your own rules and live by them or die by them.
and If you don't like paying for other peoples medical bills, it's simple, just don't pay your taxes

I agree. Don't wear your helmet in Ontario and lose your license.  Then go to jail for one of the following . . . riding without a license, not paying the fine for not wearing a helmet or, if you follow his advice, tax evasion.  Helmet laws don't apply in prison. Problem solved . . . brilliant.

Anyhow . . . being from Ontario I agree with gammer. Why should I pay for someone's mental rehab when it could have been avoided?  As for places without universal health care . . . anyone who doesn't think it's a good idea to wear a helmet is probably right.  They clearly have little to protect.

Maybe they should make a law in places without universal health care that it's your choice to wear a helmet or not . . . unless you have dependents (children, a wife, etc.).

Who needs helmet laws when you have the law of natural selection?

[prophetic_joe]

Part of me says that helmet laws are bad simply from the stand point that we should be able to put ourselves in harms way if we desire but another parts realises that there are people that ride that are on wellfare and get medical provided to them by taxes. My tax dollars do not need to pay to keep a vegetable alive after they were stupid enough to ride without a helmet.

[fishmeister]

                Maybe skydiving without the parachute will be the new choice. Or atheletes will be offered

                the option of wearing equipment or not.  It's just not fair someone requiring you to protect

                yourself.... ?????....WHAT?

[soyavenger]

               Maybe skydiving without the parachute will be the new choice. Or atheletes will be offered the option of wearing equipment or not

i remember that was a big thing a few years ago, there were one or two hockey players who chose to play without helmets and people were freakin out.

this may or may not be "tread jacking," but when i took the msf course in fl, the instructor said that when you flip up the front of a modular helmet, its no longer a dot approved helmet. makes sense, but here in or, i see plenty of people, including moto-cops, riding this way. i realize dot is a state org, so it probably would differ from place to place, just kinda strange to see it oregon.

[soyavenger]

sorry, folks, i must be a squid, but something about tempting fate gets my goat. most of the time im more or less about safety, im planning on getting a full face helmet and some gear, but some days i like the feel of knowing my life is in the balance, and i wish that was my choice to make. nothing like being close to death makes you feel alive. it was nice in fl to ride naked, if you havent tried it, it feels good. ATGMOTT

[happycommuter]

...the instructor said that when you flip up the front of a modular helmet, its no longer a dot approved helmet.

I wear a modular helmet.  I've heard they fail to meet something on the Snell test, but never heard this.

I knew one guy who would sometimes ride with the chinbar up.  Besides being top heavy and aerodynamically retarded, it adds a leverage point in a crash.  I have no desire to be a quadriplegic.

I managed to get a scratched cornea from airborne debris one night while riding one the highway with a closed visor on a modular helmet and eyeglasses.  And my first crash broke the 'riot shield' on my 3/4 helmet leading me to walk around with a band-aid on my face for a week or two despite landing in dirt.

[DesignFlaw06]

...the instructor said that when you flip up the front of a modular helmet, its no longer a dot approved helmet.

I wear a modular helmet.  I've heard they fail to meet something on the Snell test, but never heard this.

I knew one guy who would sometimes ride with the chinbar up.  Besides being top heavy and aerodynamically retarded, it adds a leverage point in a crash.  I have no desire to be a quadriplegic.

I have heard that modulars won't meet Snell requirements also. But I'm willing to take that risk. Riding with glasses, it's a lifesaver. But I never ride with the chinbar up.

[green427]

Out of curiosity, whats everyone elses views on helmet LAWS?

Your age indicates that you are 25. Do you have a spouse? Children?

Trust me, your priorities WILL change over time.

When you are the only one supporting a family, and become brain-dead or a vegetable due to a preventable head injury, it is not you that will be suffering....it is your family. They now have to make ends meet and help pay for your medical bills.

Right now you are only thinking of YOUR needs, not others.

As for my opinion on helmet laws...... If someone wants to take a risk, let them. It is called 'natural selection'. But....like I said in the other discussion, if I have to pay for other people's risks, I am glad to see the helmet laws.

Also, I've seen a couple of accident scenes up close with motorcyclists not wearing helmets. When you see a one inch crack in someone's head with pink, red, blue, and gray colored slime oozing out of it, with a 300 foot trail of blood leading back to the mangled wreck, it impacts you.

[Bumblebee]

this may or may not be "tread jacking," but when i took the msf course in fl, the instructor said that when you flip up the front of a modular helmet, its no longer a dot approved helmet.

So... Since an opened modular helmet is essentially a 3/4 helmet, that would logically mean that all DOT approved 3/4 helmets are not DOT approved. Yes?

I have heard that modulars won't meet Snell requirements also.

The discussions I've seen indicate that no modular helmets have been submitted to Snell for testing. Not tested is not the equivalent of not able to pass. Then there's the whole discussion about Snell standards being so high that in order to pass, the shell and impact foam have to be harder than necessary thus imparting more g forces into the riders head. Kinda makes you wonder a bit...

[soyavenger]

Right now you are only thinking of YOUR needs, not others.

correct, thats the essence of my view against helmet laws, personal safety should be personal. the consequences of serious injury or death are different for me than they are for you or anyone else. it should be my responsibility to assess those consequences and choose what, if any, gear to use. when, or if, im married with children, the consequences will change. if you think helmets should be mandatory because you have a wife and kids, arent you only thinking of your needs?

So... Since an opened modular helmet is essentially a 3/4 helmet, that would logically mean that all DOT approved 3/4 helmets are not DOT approved. Yes?

true, i was just taking the word of the instructor, also assumed that because the chin bar locks into the rest of the helmet, a 3/4 would be structurally more sound than a mod with the front up, but hey, dont have much experience with mods

[Sideways]

sorry, folks, i must be a squid, but something about tempting fate gets my goat. most of the time im more or less about safety, im planning on getting a full face helmet and some gear, but some days i like the feel of knowing my life is in the balance, and i wish that was my choice to make. nothing like being close to death makes you feel alive. it was nice in fl to ride naked, if you havent tried it, it feels good. ATGMOTT

I wholeheartedly agree with this philosophy.

Just because people tell you to do something doesn't mean you have to do it. Make your own rules and live by them or die by them.
and If you don't like paying for other peoples medical bills, it's simple, just don't pay your taxes

I agree. Don't wear your helmet in Ontario and lose your license.  Then go to jail for one of the following . . . riding without a license, not paying the fine for not wearing a helmet or, if you follow his advice, tax evasion.  Helmet laws don't apply in prison. Problem solved . . . brilliant.

Anyhow . . . being from Ontario I agree with gammer. Why should I pay for someone's mental rehab when it could have been avoided?  As for places without universal health care . . . anyone who doesn't think it's a good idea to wear a helmet is probably right.  They clearly have little to protect.

Maybe they should make a law in places without universal health care that it's your choice to wear a helmet or not . . . unless you have dependents (children, a wife, etc.).

Who needs helmet laws when you have the law of natural selection?

"Some of the best books were written in prison" Dr.Gonzo
All that being said, i haven't ridden without my helmet since i posted in this thread, I'm getting used to it and don't like riding without it now, still I don't like the idea of helmet laws, motorcycling is totally dangerous, so is driving. Frankly I'm surprised that big brother even lets us ride them at all and doesnt order all motorcycles and cars with more than 3 cylinders be melted down to make more bullets to keep us safe from ourselves or "the terrorists" as they would call anyone who dares think for him or herself and lump them in with suicide bombers and pschycopaths. [/rant]
but seriously I love all yous guys and I hope you don't crash but if you do ever crash I hope you have your brain buckets on.
Btw i live in a state where only eye protection is mandatory,

[soyavenger]

It's just not fair someone requiring you to protect

                yourself.... ?????....WHAT?

something i was thinking about on my ride today, helmets are obviously a great idea, i dont think anyone would say different, but its the combination of alot of different circumstances that leads to injury or death due to lack of helmet use. in that way, helmets are similar to condoms. using one is obviously safer than not, but youre not guaranteed to die without one. you can get lucky without both plenty of times, but if the circumstances are wrong, youre screwed, no pun intended. yet theres no condom law for unmarried or non-monogamous couples.

it also feels natural to ride without one, pun intended