dim headlight / wierd electrical problem - '83 650

[thomas.clark]

new here, and new to my nighthawk - i dig both  

my headlight is VERY dim, though working, and the right front turn signal stays on continuously when the key is turned to "on." both sides blink correctly when so instructed. Also, the horn makes only a pitiful gagging sound, no blast, and this further dims the headlight.

I looked over all the wiring I could get at (in the turn signal and in the turn-signal-horn-high-low switch and behind the headlight) without taking apart the ignition or removing the fuel tank, and I can't find any crossed wires or loose ends. However, the headlight does seem to have been jerry-rigged with a piece of wire from a basic household lamp (I'm going to replace this with heavy gauge on principle, though I'm not sure if it could be the culprit).

And to top it off, the bike only wants to start intermittently now - cranks and cranks, but won't always turn over. When it does, it runs fine. I'm not sure this is related, unless it's all a battery issue.

any thoughts?

[flynrider]

the right front turn signal stays on continuously when the key is turned to "on."

  The right front turn signal is working correctly.  When not flashing, it should act as a running light (unlike the rear turn signals).  You left front probably has a burnt out filament in the bulb.  It should also come on steady when the key is turned on.

[thomas.clark]

The right front turn signal is working correctly.  When not flashing, it should act as a running light (unlike the rear turn signals).  You left front probably has a burnt out filament in the bulb.  It should also come on steady when the key is turned on.

awesome - thanks for the info!  I'll replace that, fix the ghetto wiring, and see about the overall charge on the battery.

knew this was a good place to be... i'm staying 

[Burgi]

Not sure if this is your problem but my headlight appeared very dim because the inside of the glass was fogged. I couldn't really see that it was until I cleaned it, then my headlight appeared much brighter.
Also the headlight is dimmer at idle since our bikes are not charging at idle. It should be brighter when you rev it up.

[83FirstHawk]

first place to always start is check the voltage at the headlighht socket, green is ground, the other two are for the high and low beam, I think dark blue is high beam.

Also check the the bulb itself, sometimes they have a silver buildup coating inside like old vacum tubes. Mine had that, I changed the bulb, and its way better. As bulbs age, they get that a lot of times.

[83FirstHawk]

forget to add, you could have a problem with your start switch, as the headlight is fed through the start switch. The headlight will go out/dim when starting for extra battery power to the starter.

[thomas.clark]

Fixed: Headlight Brightness, Intermittent Start, Weak Horn
Between replacing the suspect wiring and hooking the battery up to a charger/maintainer, these issues seem largely resolved. 

check the the bulb itself, sometimes they have a silver buildup coating inside like old vacum tubes. Mine had that, I changed the bulb, and its way better. As bulbs age, they get that a lot of times.

Will do - thanks.  For now, I'm glad it's working.  Still not as bright as I would anticipate, but it's roughly on par with the beam from my 87 Elite 150.  That is to say, bright enough to not die at low speeds at night - which is all I ever plan to do, if I ride in the dark at all.

Pending: Turn Signal Behavior

The right front turn signal is working correctly.  When not flashing, it should act as a running light (unlike the rear turn signals).  You left front probably has a burnt out filament in the bulb.  It should also come on steady when the key is turned on.

after switching the front bulbs, the behavior is the same - the right stays on, acting as a running light and blinks correctly.  The left functions as a blinker, but does not stay on as a running light.  New info: the left rear turn signal is not working. ran out of time to examine whether the bulb is burned out - will check and update accordingly.  Perhaps this bulb is out, and somehow the running-light circuit is not completed?  Anyhow, will check as I can.

New Issue: Right Front Brake
After a brief check ride, I bumped into the right front disc when working on the turn signal, and got burned - it was wicked hot.  Seems the right front caliper doesn't seem to want to let go, and some grooves are starting to appear on the disk.  There is some black, semi-greasy/grimy substance covering the bottom of the caliper assembly.  This substance is absent on the left caliper/TRAC assembly, and the left break is working and releasing just fine.  The wheel will roll, but with considerable effort.  The front brakes do function, but this is clearly a no-ride situation.  I have no idea how to service brakes, aside from changing pads, but will do my best by following the service manual.  Any suggestions?

[gammer]

Its normal to see grooves in the rotor. It should not have an oily film on it though.
If the caliper is sticking, then at the very least you will need to take it off and clean the pistons and bleed the line with some fresh fluid. If it still sticks after that, then you will need to rebuild the caliper with new seals.

[thomas.clark]

cool - thanks!  there's no film on the disc, so that's a relief.  the service manual instructions for bleeding the lines are a bit confusing, so I'll likely try to drain it and replace with DOT-4.  Thanks for the tips!

[thomas.clark]

Well, after getting my wife and newborn son through the flu and working through some marriage issues, I've now got some time to get back in the garage and work on this some more.

No update on the turn signals.

The headlight is decidedly not on par with the beam from my 87 Elite 150, or even a dim flashligh, for that matter.  The battery says it's fully charged, so I'm gonna take it by a shop and see if it's still carrying it's design load - don't have the necessary equipment.

Its normal to see grooves in the rotor. It should not have an oily film on it though.
If the caliper is sticking, then at the very least you will need to take it off and clean the pistons and bleed the line with some fresh fluid. If it still sticks after that, then you will need to rebuild the caliper with new seals.

The caliper was not only sticking, but the leading pistion is totally stuck and unresponsive to pressure in the lines, while the trailing piston would extend but not retract.  So, disconnected the caliper, drained the lines, removed the trailing piston, but still have to deal with the stuck leading piston.  Haven't got a grease gun or compressed air, so I'm paying a bike mechanic $20 to pressure it out in his shop.  Seem fair?  Then I'm going to do a full rebuild with new seals and aluminum washers at the line/caliper joint.  And of course the pads are glazed, too, from all that heat.  So, time for new pads.

Best value for seals, washers, and pads?  I've been thinking BikeBandit for OEM on the seals and washers, and aftermarket for the pads. Any thoughts?

Muchas gracias por ayudarme

[Bad Boy]

Bike Bandit is a good place to get parts.  Some types of aftermarket pads are more abrasive to the rotor than OEM, I don't know what to recommend though.

For future reference.  One way to remove a stuck piston is to put a c-clamp on one piston and pump the other one out by pumping the brake handle, adding fluid as needed.

[thomas.clark]

For future reference.  One way to remove a stuck piston is to put a c-clamp on one piston and pump the other one out by pumping the brake handle, adding fluid as needed.

Dang - good tip!  That's why I'll never be able to take over the world, Pinky.  Thanks for the feedback on BikeBandit and the pads.  Will consider just getting OEM.

The other side's pads are in good shape - do I need to replace both sides at the same time?

[ROJ]

You should replace both sides at the same time.It may not look like you need too, but you will have the one side gripping more than the other, and that can cause you to veer in the one direction, which is ok normally but not good if you need to do an emergency stop. While you're at it, you may want to take the pistons out of the other caliper and polish them up as well. You may not need to replace the seals on the good one, but making sure everything works properly will ensure you don't have to go back to the other side a week later. Plus you want to get rid of any "memory" spot on the caliper pistons and slider bolts.

[thomas.clark]

aw shucks, I was afraid somebody would come along and say something well-reasoned and sensible like that ^^^

I just wanna ride    but right you are - better now than later!  Thanks!

[thomas.clark]

While you're at it, you may want to take the pistons out of the other caliper and polish them up as well.

went to follow this fine bit of advice, only to find that the previously well-operating pistons on that side will now not budge thanks to letting all of the pressure out of the system whilst removing the first caliper.   

the best plan my pea-brain can muster is to rebuild the first caliper, re-pressurize the system, then do it all again on the second side.  could buy an air compressor, etc, but my wise wife has noted that it's expensive.  Or, could cough up another $20 to have the mechanic rocket these pistons out, too.  Or, what I'll likely end up doing, do the multi-stage rebuild, and just chalk it up to experience working with hydraulic brakes.

What say ye?

[ROJ]

If by multi-stage you mean using the brake fluid hydraulic pressure to push out one piston (with the other being held by a C-clamp), clean it, put it back in, then repeat for the other side, then Yes.. do that. Its not too hard of a project.

[thomas.clark]

Thanks, ROJ - will do.  Never worked on hydraulic brakes before, so this is all new to me.  I really appreciate all the tips! 

[DonD]

DC electrical problems are often caused by grounding issues.

Bad grounds can cause weird things to happen.

I would renew all the ground points (shine 'em up), then unplug each connector/socket and clean as needed and apply silicon grease (dialectric) before reconnecting.

Good Luck 

[Team Zoltan]

Keep up the good work!  Hope to hear about some awesome rides where the brakes work unusually well! 

One suggestion I have would be to check for your brake pads on E-bay, I find that although Bikebandit makes it really easy to find the items you need on their site, they are more expensive than other places.  I bought brake pads on there and was disappointed when I searched E-bay and found I could have gotten them a lot cheaper

For example I just did a quick search on E-bay and got this which I think you'll find is less expensive than at bikebandit. 

I'm not great with all the technical jargon so if anyone can think of a reason that the E-bay ones should not be bought please put it out there so we of lesser understanding  can be forewarned 

[Brittles]

The pads in the ebay link are sintered pads which I read aren't supposed to be used on bikes not originally designed for sintered pads.

I think I read that in the Dennis Kirk catalog.

[thomas.clark]

thanks for all the tips!

i wound up going with the aftermarket organic dealy pads from bikebandit.  i didn't understand the sintered stuff, and I just tend to stay away from things I don't understand.

Hope to hear about some awesome rides where the brakes work unusually well!

Thanks! Hope to have some to tell of very soon...

[ROJ]

You'll have to replace the organic pads more often than sintered pads, but they will be better on your rotors. Metal sintered pads chew away at the rotors as well as the pads. If you stop normally (i.e. don't apply the brakes HARD about 15 feet from where you want to stop) and gradually, then the organic pads will last a fair amount of time. Also they are quieter, with less brake squeal than the other types of pads.

[cjbear11]

That's why I'll never be able to take over the world, Pinky

I love the Pinky and the Brain reference! HAHAHA!