CB650 engine wont turn, no spark, just a 'click'

[jaymanla]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum and the nighthawk series of bikes.

I recently purchased a 84 CB650sc and am having trouble starting it, I bought a new battery and charged it and when I go to hit the starter (clutch in, fuel on, carb choked, killswitch on run, battery plugged in right etc...) all I'm getting is a solid click and nothing else, no turn of the engine, no spark in the wires that I can tell, just one click and nothing else.

I've also attempted to turn what I thought might be the crank bolt (right hand side, bolt is holding what appears to be the piece that sends the spark to the coils, I figured its being turned by the crank at least) and to the right it does not move and to the left it loosens. I'm new to old bikes without kickers and Im a bit in over my head so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[coffee_brake]

Have you ever had the bike running?


Let's hope it's a simple thing like the starter solenoid. This is a heavy usually round thing that is connected to the positive terminal of the battery. It should have two bolts sticking out of it. Check the connections here very well. Even if they look good, take them loose (disconnect the battery first) and clean them and put them back. The starter solenoid also is connected to the starter motor, check and clean that connection too. The starter motor has a wire that hooks to a bolt on the engine (a ground wire), check that one too. Clean the battery connections too and put them back.

If still no start, you can cross the two bolts to see if the starter motor turns.
To do this, get a junky old screwdriver, hold the plastic handle, and use the metal part to touch both bolts on the solenoid at the same time. It should spark and make the starter motor turn. If it does, then you know your solenoid is bad and this is an easy cheap fix.

That's a start, anyway....all free and easy to check. Please let us know what happens!

[jaymanla]

Alas no I have not had it running, the kid that sold it to me said it ran fine and all he did was change the spark plugs and oil and that it would not hold an idle after that. Seemed he wasn't bs-ing but you never know.

I'll be trying those things first thing in the morning, thank you very much for the quick and detailed tips!

[Munkey]

Try pulling the spark plugs then turn the engine over manually like you did before. With the plugs out, there's no compression and it should turn over fairly easily. Don't force it. If it won't turn, then it's time to get a service manual and start pulling parts.

[jaymanla]

Alright, update on the 'hawk

I checked all the connections between the battery/solenoid/starter motor/the ground on the starter motor and they all seemed fine. I then disconnected the solenoid from the starter motor and hit the start button to see if the sound would be the same and found it to be a much less audible 'click'. I then re-attached everything to try it again and it sounded as if the starter motor was trying to turn but couldn't move the engine.

I then tried crossing the two bolts on the starter motor and nothing at all happened.

My next step was to remove the spark plugs and try to move the engine again using the same bolt I tried yesterday and it would not move...

I then had an idea.

The kid I bought it from said it had been sitting in his mothers yard since the middle of the summer, and this thought led me back to when I originally pulled the plugs and found one rather loose on the right hand side of the motor... Maybe this is wishful thinking but could condensation from it sitting have possibly frozen a cylinder or two in place? Would it be ill advised to squirt some wd40 into the cylinders, let it sit, and then attempt to pop start it without the battery just to see if it will at least turn over?

Yay, nay?

[coffee_brake]

Don't start it without a battery in it, it can damage the charging system.

Are you sure the battery is charged? They do go bad right from the beginning sometimes. Have you checked the voltage across the battery to see what you're getting? Your battery may not be taking a charge, new or not. Can you try using your car battery for a jump? (Leave the car's engine OFF when jumping a bike.)

If your leads are long enough, you could always see if the starter is frozen by connecting it straight to the battery, just touch the leads. It should spark and spin.

You can drop the oil, look and see if there is any water floating in it. If there is water in the oil, there is a chance the pistons are frozen to the cylinders with rust.

Putting a little oil or WD40 or some lube in each plug hole is never a bad idea for a motor that has been sitting, I always do that before a startup after a long sit.

Fellas, can't he just put it in high gear and push it with the clutch out to tell if the motor is seized up?

[Munkey]

My next step was to remove the spark plugs and try to move the engine again using the same bolt I tried yesterday and it would not move...

Would it be ill advised to squirt some wd40 into the cylinders, let it sit, and then attempt to pop start it without the battery just to see if it will at least turn over?

Yay, nay?

Engine is seized. Don't try starting it until you can get it to turn over freely. You're just going to burn up your starter or other electrics. I would try soaking all the cylinders in WD40 or maybe some Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders. It won't hurt anything so don't be shy, give them a good soaking. While they are soaking, I would pull the valve cover and try to make sure the cam chain or something else is not broken that may be jammed and not letting it turn over.

Fellas, can't he just put it in high gear and push it with the clutch out to tell if the motor is seized up?

Yes, but at this point he needs to be careful and not force anything. If it's not rust but is a broken part causing this, he could do more damage.

[jaymanla]

Small update on the 'hawk:

Opened the cam cover; and the cams, cam chain, and gears all appear properly worn for a 40k mile bike.

From here I'm going to drain the oil out to check for water and keep trying to get her to move. Also I have ordered a shop manual just in case things get real gritty.

If I'm missing something I'm sure you guys will let me know, I really appreciate the help and I'll try to get some pics up of the progress so far, I know how much everyone likes to see a Honda's insides ; )

[ariwhiteboy]

I hope you get it going....I have used a combination of Marvel Mystery Oil and good old automatic transmission fluid...sounds crazy but it worked on a 7.7l V-8 and a honda mini-trail 50.  Let it sit a few days to penetrate the rings and give it a shot.

[LOKi]

....
+ 1    That stuff up there ^

 

good luck.  to the forum.

[Brittles]

I guess I'm a little late to this party and haven't read through every post but did you try putting it on the centerstand and spinning the rear wheel with the bike in gear?

[jaymanla]

Here we go, more problems hooray! I suppose I asked for this when I went searching for a bike that didn't work so I could gain some experience... most valuable so far being to not do this again!

The engine is definitely frozen and I'm thinking its the right hand inside cylinder because its plug was not nearly tightened when I went to take them out (seller had let it sit for months). I have since soaked the cylinders but have run into another problem... I accidentally drained the clutch and for the life of me can't get it to work again (though it was spongy to begin with) I have tried using a pump to pull the air out, I've tried gravity bleeding, and I've even taken apart the slave cylinder to make sure it has movement (it moves quite freely) and all I can get is a slight difference in pressure, no actual release of the gear.

I'm still waiting for my manual but I feel as though once I get the clutch to work again I'll be able to get the engine turning, and once that's turning I'll be able to re-install everything and quite possibly have a running machine. (Though I will be needing new calipers for the front brakes, very much frozen are they)

Any hints on that clutch? I'm also quite ready to sell this thing cheapcheapcheap if you live in the New England area.

[Munkey]

I wouldn't spend any time worrying about fixing the clutch. If the engine is seized, fixing the clutch is not going to gain you a thing. Fix the engine first.

Get a service manual and start pulling the engine apart. You'll be amazed at the sense of pride you'll have riding the bike after you bring it back from the dead. It's really not that hard with a manual, some time, and the help of all your new friends here.

[jaymanla]

Yeah I got it pressurized anyway finally... but it has a hard time rolling in gear with the clutch pulled and it certainly isn't turning the engine when rolled down my driveway and popped. Yeah, manual, work, pride, hoo-ray... more time! Its gorgeous and I want to ride not wrench... don't think I don't appreciate the help though! Seeing as this is the only transport I have working or not (I work a mile from home, feet work well) I have no choice but to dig in when that service manual comes in. Thanks again, I am glad that this kind of free help is this available, amazing is the internet!

[gammer]

Thanks again, I am glad that this kind of free help is this available

Yeah...about that...didn't you read the disclaimer when you joined this forum? You will be billed accordingly based on the number of questions asked and gauged on how serious your issue is 

Just joking...hope you get riding soon 

[jaymanla]

Due to lack of space, tools, patience and experience I have decided to abandon the project and attempt to find something that needs less work (never again with a frozen engine!). It is going up on craigslist as we speak. If I ever pick up another NH I'm sure I'll be back, sorry to disappoint!

[Brittles]

Before giving up.........are you certain the engine is seized? Put your bike on the center stand, put it in 5th or 6th gear and try to turn the rear wheel. If the wheel will turn your engine isn't seized.

I didn't read the whole thread, so if this doesn't pertain then disregard.

[Munkey]

Before giving up.........are you certain the engine is seized? Put your bike on the center stand, put it in 5th or 6th gear and try to turn the rear wheel. If the wheel will turn your engine isn't seized.

I didn't read the whole thread, so if this doesn't pertain then disregard.

Yeah, he tried turning it with a wrench on the end of the crank. If you can't turn it that way, it's seized.