Nighthawk S riders question:

[OhCrap]

I have a question for my fellow S riders:

Do any of you ever get your foot-pegs to touch the road without laying the bike down completely? Because I can't seem to do it on mine.

The bike feels confident and capable enough, but every time I try I seem to run out of rear tire and the rear wheels starts to slip/drift when I'm in mid corner or when accelerating out of it. I have had to go to opposite lock on quite a few occasions to keep from going down. While it must look cool drifting out of a corner Michael Doohan style, that isn't really what I'm after. My tires are in good condition, pressure seems perfect, just not sure how much heating up they need. Have I simply found the bikes limitations, am I doing something wrong, is there something wrong with my bikes suspension, was the rear Bridgestone BT45 a bad choice or could the slightly lower 110/80/16 Dunlop K205F upfront have this much effect? Please help me to get the grass on the side of the road grace my knee again like it did once before.

[Brittles]

I've never ground the pegs, but I'm not a real aggresive rider. I think a lot of it has to do with the high clearance on the S. The rear shocks are what? 15 inches? That's pretty tall.

[isleofmanfan]

I have a question for my fellow S riders:

Do any of you ever get your foot-pegs to touch the road without laying the bike down completely? Because I can't seem to do it on mine.

The bike feels confident and capable enough, but every time I try I seem to run out of rear tire and the rear wheels starts to slip/drift when I'm in mid corner or when accelerating out of it. I have had to go to opposite lock on quite a few occasions to keep from going down. While it must look cool drifting out of a corner Michael Doohan style, that isn't really what I'm after. My tires are in good condition, pressure seems perfect, just not sure how much heating up they need. Have I simply found the bikes limitations, am I doing something wrong, is there something wrong with my bikes suspension, was the rear Bridgestone BT45 a bad choice or could the slightly lower 110/80/16 Dunlop K205F upfront have this much effect? Please help me to get the grass on the side of the road grace my knee again like it did once before.

If you can get someone to tape you drifting your scooter please do!  I'd love to see it.  Hard to believe you have anywhere near the horsepower to do it, but hey.  Ever seen that fairly famouse clip of Rossi drifting his bike (probably 7 or 8 years ago) on one of the European circuits?  UNBELIEVABLE!  Gives me goosebumps every time I see it.  Smoke just-a-rollin'.  Musta had the anti spin dialled off.

[hppants]

I dragged my left peg when I low sided the bike... does that count? 

[OhCrap]

Yeah, I think I remember that one. Still not as good as Doohan though :P

But it's not just a matter of power since it also happened a few times before I went on the throttle (I always have the engine pulling slightly when cornering, or at least keep the throttle open a bit to keep the speed neutral).

Not sure if it's worth filming though, I don't make really huge powerslides. Just tiny small ones, but big enough to make me feel uncomfortable even though the bike remains very controllable. I do drive a lot so I'm trying to make these tires last as well 

Thanks for your reply as well Brittles, I'd like to get as many responds as possible before I decide to get wider forks and swingarm and go supermotard on this baby 

[OhCrap]

I dragged my left peg when I low sided the bike... does that count? 

Sorry mr. Pants, it only counts if you make it all the way through the curve with both wheels touching the road while they're still attached to the bike.

[hppants]

Figures.  I recall having a tingly feeling in my pants that day.  I was so scared I nearly $hiT myself!!

[OhCrap]

Did you have a very long slide/roll? I never went down with a motorcycle at high speed myself, but I did crash my MT-50 at about 50mph exactly 12 times before I turned 18. I still remember because my friends made me promise to throw them a party the tenth time it would happen, which of course I did. I was only scared on a couple of occasions though, most of the times I was more worried about what I'd have to fix this time and how much it was gonna cost me..

[isleofmanfan]

For years I've practiced getting to max lean angle and applying power.  I have measured 3/8" of untouched outer edge rubber on the rear, to give an idea of the angle.  Its a feeling I really enjoy, but never actually spun the tire.  After moving out here, where the rain doesn't clean the road surface, I've twisted on a lot of power at extreme lean angle and spun the tire just a little.  (using second gear)   It was an awesome feeling!  I think the best part of it was that it felt so controlled.  The Nighthawk has a pretty rigid frame, and is not subject to much flex.  I believe this exercise helps one get to know the bikes abilities better, while sharpening the riding skills.  For sure, this is not real safe, and not for everyone!

Oh, and you're right, Doohan can git-er-done on the power slides.  I've seen him do prolly 40 of 'em.

[OhCrap]

I never really liked drifting at high speeds, and I don't think I'm really good at it even though I kept the bike when it happened unintentionally. I'm absolutely terrible in the dirt on 2 wheels. I'd rather have loads of grip.

3/8 of an inch sounds about where I'm at right now with this new rear tire (only done about 200mi or so on it in the dry. I don't feel comfortable enough with the bike & tires to mess about in the wet yet since I haven't been riding frequently the last few years, still building it up a little). But you do have a different bike with larger wheels if I'm correct, and ground clearance in upward position is about an inch more on your bike as well I was told. I'm not sure how much difference that would make, but they do handle differently I think.


I agree that it's good to know what your bike (or car) is capable of. I don't take it to the limit every day or every ride, but it's good to know how far you can go in case you ever get in an unexpected situation to get out of it safely. And of course it's a lot of fun to get to know your bike as well, at least it is for me.

[Bad Boy]

I have touched pegs a couple of times but not too often.  Usually in the tighter corners.  BT45 rear tire worn to the edges.  BT45 front.  32/32 psi. Rear shock set at 3 and 3.  Front no air, top of fork 1/2" above triple clamp.  Gently roll on throttle through corner 7k-8k rpm.  I wore the right heat shield off the exhaust below the foot peg.  The new one is scraped up.  I have not had the tires loose traction on good dry pavement.  Keep inputs smooth.

Road conditions make a difference.  Sand or dust.   Mt. St. Helens here has awsome roads but volcanic ash will slide you a bit in some places.

[OhCrap]

Finally one who has, thanks for the detailed set up info as well.

Did you lower the front of your bike yourself, and if so, why? Just curious. I'm not sure how mine are mounted, I'll have to have a look at them tomorrow. Also no air for me and anti dive on 4 upfront, and rear on 2/2 (I only way a 130 pounds).

I never go this far unless I know the road is clean and smooth btw, I really don't want to damage my bike since parts are so hard to come by for these oldies.

But I'll be aiming for tight corners first then. I guess that means short touches instead of long grinds?

[Bad Boy]

The top of the forks were at 3/4" above the triple clamp when I acquired the bike.  Lowering the front or raising the back quickens steering / less stability.  After grinding hard parts I raised it to 1/2" to gain more ground clearance.  The S has quick steering already with that 16" front.  I may raise the front another 1/4" for more clearance.

Antidive at 4 as it is pretty weak.  I am at 170 lbs.  Scraping pegs not a goal, shift upper body toward the curve, more clearance.  I keep butt on the seat though.

Cornering is all smoothness, maintaining traction.  Keep relaxed, turn head, gentle acceleration and inputs.  Never brake, never panic, maintain throttle.  It just feels right when it all works together.

[isleofmanfan]

Yes ohcrap, my ('03) rear rim is wider, but not sure by how much.  I'd love to know how close my foot rests get to the ground.  I'd have to have somebody watch them.  That said, I'd really prefer not to drag any hard parts.  I do wish the damn thing would wheelie just by rolling on the throttle!  (my future Bandit will)

[coffee_brake]

When I had mine, I scraped a couple times on the left side. Some of the scariest moments of my life.....

[isleofmanfan]

When I had mine, I scraped a couple times on the left side. Some of the scariest moments of my life.....

You touched down on a Nighthawk, or your Bandit?

[coffee_brake]

Huh? What bandit?

[isleofmanfan]

Somebody told me you HAD a Bandit.

[coffee_brake]

No that's the Nighthawk Goddess Tryvelcro.
I would like a Bandit 1200 but not at the expense of my Nighthawk. TryVelcro had a 600 Bandit.

The 700S has a flexing frame compared to my 750, when it touched down it also scraped my boot and scared me (more) witless.

[Brittles]

When I had mine, I scraped a couple times on the left side. Some of the scariest moments of my life.....

That's interesting. Why do you think it never happened in a right hand turn? 

I find myself more comfortable leaning hard into a left hand turn than a right hand turn. Not sure why.

[gammer]

Weird...the way the center stand leg sticks out, I'd figure it would touch the ground before the pegs would?
I've cornered my bike pretty hard, but never had the pegs touch. Honestly not something I'd want to do on purpose

[OhCrap]

When I had mine, I scraped a couple times on the left side. Some of the scariest moments of my life.....

That's interesting. Why do you think it never happened in a right hand turn?  

I find myself more comfortable leaning hard into a left hand turn than a right hand turn. Not sure why.

Same here, seems like I'm more comfortable taking a fast left than a fast right. Also in cars and on bicycles. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with it, but I do know my left eye is my dominant one. That's why I'm a left handed shooter with bow and riffles while I'm right handed with everything else.


And btw, the goal isn't to scrape parts of the bike or anything, I'm just looking for a limit.

@ Gammer, funny that you mention that, on most bikes I've driven the first thing that touched the ground was usually the center stand. The only exception so far was a Yamaha Virago with very large exhaust clamps. But when it comes to Hawks I keep reading about 'pegs to the ground' so I just assumed that would be the first part of this bike to to touch the ground. I may just have misinterpreted an American expression for all I know.

[Bad Boy]

Your limit is going to be your tires ability to grip the pavement and the skill you use to maintain that grip through proper riding technique.

Public road pavement is highly variable and introduces significant unknowns to the equation.  The Nighthawk S is capable of dragging pegs under ideal conditions.  It is a considerable risk to assume you have ideal conditions at any moment in an uncontrolled environment.  A maintained race track is a more controlled environment that reduces some risk.  On public roads one should maintain a greater safety factor considering these unknowns. 

I have increased my skills over the last 6 years driving aggressively and have been lucky to have survived it.  I have witnessed 4 serious accidents of riders behind me, one fatal.

It would be good to know your limits but they are not a constant.  Unfortunately we often find our limit by exceeding them.

[gammer]

That is a fantastic 'Disclaimer', Bad Boy.

Unfortunately we often find our limit by exceeding them.

In many things in life, you want to find you limits this way. But with motorcycling you don't. Take it easy and learn slowly. There is no shame in not being able to keep up with someone more experienced in the corners.
Make decisions that will allow you to live to ride another day.

[hppants]

There is no shame in not being able to keep up with someone more experienced in the corners.

+1.  I've ridden with Loki 1000 miles in the past year.  95% of that has been following.  He's a better rider than I am.  When I'm not holding him up, I relax more, I enjoy it, and I ride better.  Also, following Loki, Coffee Brake, and other more experienced riders at the Rally increased my ability and my safety by 100%.  I can see what they are doing and I learned a lot.

Whether it's leading, following, or getting the heck out of the way, I love riding in the twisties.