Grabbing the front brake mid-turn

[Laminar]

 

[geemann]

haha! glad he is ok!  athough he looks way to peppy for a guy who just went down!

thanks for sharing this, it made my day!
~G

[fishmeister]

Does thar merit getting a ticket?  

Maybe CHP threw his banana peal out from lunch and was waiting.

[Burgi]

You know he just crapped when he came into that turn and saw the cop sitting there.
They repaved parts of Mullholland recently and it is really nice. 

[coffee_brake]

I'd have done the same thing...learned behavior and all...

[gammer]

Am I the only one who thinks its mean that the police set themselves up there?
I mean, even if you were going at a normal speed around that corner, it might throw you for a loop to come around and see the police car sitting there. I don't think safety was much of a concern.
I dunno...seems like one of those 'planned accidents' on the police's behalf 

[coffee_brake]

Yes, it did.

[EM87]

I've seen that video before on another forum - lesson learned?

I did the same thing once, except there was no cop, just stopped traffic right around a corner.  There was no way to swerve (line of traffic on the right, curb and trees on the left) and the back brake on the bike I had wouldn't have stopped me in time.  I grabbed both and hoped I wouldn't go down, but I did.  Same as that guy.   I knew better, too, even as I did it, but like I said, I would have hit the back of the car stopped in front of me if I hadn't. 

[Munkey]

I'd rather have the ticket than a busted up bike. This guy may have gotten both.

[bajakirch]

Speaking on behalf of law enforcement, I think that was an irresponsible place to park that squad. They have to know that someone coming around the corner too fast is going to freak when they see the cop. This was a preventable accident.

I don't see any reason he couldn't have sat back a couple hundred feet. He's still going to be able to observe whatever illegal behavior he's watching for, and then he gives the rider more of a straightaway to stop/slow down safely.

[ariwhiteboy]

I think I may have peed my shorts a little! 

The CHP probably knew what was going to happen though.

[leptim]

Maybe the cop put some sand on the road as well just cause maybe he was bored.....
Just kidding.....

[spiritof86]

+1

Am I the only one who thinks its mean that the police set themselves up there?
I mean, even if you were going at a normal speed around that corner, it might throw you for a loop to come around and see the police car sitting there. I don't think safety was much of a concern.
I dunno...seems like one of those 'planned accidents' on the police's behalf 

[Laminar]

We need pants and OhCrap to post quick to get the quad-fecta of RWB bike avatars in this thread.

[LOKi]

I haven't seen the video (not allowed at work) but I can picture where the cop is. Thing is if they really want to catch a motorcycle at it's fastest point they would position themselves where they are targeting the exit of the turn where bikes accelerate out. Not the apex where the bike will be going the slowest speed.

[Laminar]

I haven't seen the video (not allowed at work) but I can picture where the cop is. Thing is if they really want to catch a motorcycle at it's fastest point they would position themselves where they are targeting the exit of the turn where bikes accelerate out. Not the apex where the bike will be going the slowest speed.

But by then the rider will have spotted the cop and not wiped out. Good thing there was no one coming from the opposing direction.

[muttstang]

I haven't seen the video, but I'd guess that the Cop wasn't planning on causing any accidents, as motorcyclists, we tend to assume that others know the dynamics of riding a bike but that's just not the case.  Most people don't realize that you can't take a hard corner and hit the brakes at the same time because they never do it and if they were to try, they are in a car which is more forgiving.

The cop probably just thought he was in a good place to ambush potential speeders.  Now if the motorcycle rider wasn't speeding then this video wouldn't even be circulated.

[chas550sc]

I've seen that video before on another forum - lesson learned?

I did the same thing once, except there was no cop, just stopped traffic right around a corner.  There was no way to swerve (line of traffic on the right, curb and trees on the left) and the back brake on the bike I had wouldn't have stopped me in time.  I grabbed both and hoped I wouldn't go down, but I did.  Same as that guy.   I knew better, too, even as I did it, but like I said, I would have hit the back of the car stopped in front of me if I hadn't. 

This got me thinking, does a dropped bike stop faster than hard braking? I mean I realize that leaned over you would have to straighten up first and then brake so that could eat up too much time, but take the curve factir out of it. which stops quicker?
And what is a reasonable escape plan or simply don't go too quick round blind corners?

[Old_Rider_54]

This got me thinking, does a dropped bike stop faster than hard braking? I mean I realize that leaned over you would have to straighten up first and then brake so that could eat up too much time, but take the curve factir out of it. which stops quicker?
And what is a reasonable escape plan or simply don't go too quick round blind corners?

Motorcycle Consumer News has some excellent articles on cornering strategies - Sept 2010 issue has "Cornering Lines - Part II" which discusses types of corners, linked turns, early vs. late apex choice, etc.  Good stuff there with some cornering issues I haven't considered before.

Bottom line for me is take it "very slow and very conservative" with unknown curves, then up it to "slow and conservative" when I know the curves.  

PS - for some video training, just search Youtube for "highside" or "lowside" and "mulholland" - you won't believe how much belt sander action has been taped there!

[LOKi]

This got me thinking, does a dropped bike stop faster than hard braking?

Absolutely NOT! Metal and plastic slide on hard surfaces while rubber sticks.

[chas550sc]

That's what I was thinking, so obviously not being there and not knowing the speicifcs, it is hard to say If Em87's judgement that he would have run into the car ahead made total sense, but you have got to always be concoius of having a way out that leaves you in control of your next option.

[LOKi]

You can pull the front brake in a turn but the bike will want to stand up. If you fight it, down you will go. I have had to use the front brake in a turn before because I entered with too much speed. I'm sure this has happen to more than a couple of us. Trust me I have entered a few turns a little too hot before. Anyone that has ridden with me can believe that. It's usually decreasing radius turns that get me. Those decreasing radius turns in the Smoky Mountains are notorious for this. Right Pants? Here is what I do.

1st: get to the inside. As you see the turn tighten up really lean toward the inside. Almost where that line would take you off the road or out of your lane.

2nd: apply front brake. Don't even think of hitting the rear. In that kind of lean it will slide right out resulting in a lowside, if your lucky, highside if your not. When you apply the front brake the bike will want to stand up and go straight(er). Don't fight it. Let it come up and as it does apply more and more brake.

3rd: As you run out of lane because your not turning anymore let go of the brake and slam it back into the turn.

4th: keep turning. If you still feel your too hot for the turn and now your on the outside there is nothing more you can do but turn. Turn until you fail to turn anymore (lowside).

This is just how I have handled this situation. I didn't read it anywhere or see it in a video. Just from experience running into these kinds of turns over and over. Figured it out when I was really new to big bikes. Took my first trip to the Smoky Mountains shortly after getting the NH. Not sure of the bike abilities I started off hitting the brake a lot in turns. Each time I naturally fallowed the above steps. Turns out I probably didn't need the break in about 80% of the turns I used it but my learning curve was fast. Even though I didn't need to shed any speed I figured out how to quickly. So when I really did need to slow down a bit in a turn I know I could and how. By the end I was diving into corners with much more confidence.
YMMV

Besides the obvious like rocks, sand or gravel in the road. Is there a flaw in my thinking on this?

[hppants]

I've read the MCN articles on cornering and have been working hard on lane position in the curves.  I learned a big lesson the hard way at the Deal's Gap Rally about using the rear brake under hard cornering.

I absolutely love riding in the twisties.  It's by far my favorite way to ride.

[Laminar]

1st: get to the inside. As you see the turn tighten up really lean toward the inside. Almost where that line would take you off the road or out of your lane.

I just started reading Proficient Motorcycling on my last flight. His recommendation is starting each turn on the outside. This gives you the best view of what's around the corner, of how the corner turns (you'll know sooner if it's decreasing radius), and people from the other direction are more likely to see you.

2nd: apply front brake. Don't even think of hitting the rear. In that kind of lean it will slide right out resulting in a lowside, if your lucky, highside if your not. When you apply the front brake the bike will want to stand up and go straight(er). Don't fight it. Let it come up and as it does apply more and more brake.

3rd: As you run out of lane because your not turning anymore let go of the brake and slam it back into the turn.

4th: keep turning. If you still feel your too hot for the turn and now your on the outside there is nothing more you can do but turn. Turn until you fail to turn anymore (lowside).

According to the book, you should have all of your speed scrubbed off before you go into the turn. Start off taking turns too slowly, and as your skill increases, increase your speed through the turns. When riding on roads, you never want to use up all of your available traction turning. If you suddenly see a deer, rock, sand pit, car, accident, etc., you want to have traction left over for extra braking or evasive maneuvering.

Also, you should be slightly on the throttle through the turn. If you're completely off the throttle, you're engine braking and wasting rear tire traction slowing down. If you're slightly on the throttle, your suspension is in a more neutral position which allows greater ground clearance and more maneuverability should the need arise. If you're heavy on the brakes, start cornering, and hit a bump, your front suspension is already compressed from braking and you're more likely to bottom it out hitting the bump. That's a wreck for sure.

[LOKi]

See I'm not talking about when you enter a turn correctly I'm talking about when you realize your to hot in the middle. At THAT point I go to the inside.

Some times the apex isn't what you though and the turn keeps going and going then gets even tighter.

Yes if you do every turn perfect you should not need your brakes at all. But sometimes something forces you to do so and knowing what the bike is going to do when you start grabbing the brake is a good idea.