Is this a bad idea?

[noah.c.hardy]

I've been looking for a motorcycle lately, and I found this potential gem on Craigslist.org

Its a black 1983 CB650SC with 3100 miles.  It has been sitting inside for 5ish years.  It is missing the seat, has the gas tank removed, needs a battery and a new clutch cable.  It is my understanding that all the parts are there except for the seat.  I am told that there is no rust and the pictures seem to confirm as much.  I've also been told the rubber is in good shape.  It has a windscreen and an engine guard.  Is this a good find for $500?

I'll try to post pictures soon, but photobucket is fighting me.

Thanks and hopefully I'll join the ranks of Nighthawk owners soon!

[genespleen]

My sense (without pictures) is that $500 *might* be good for that, but even better would be to get it for less.  Offer $350 and see what happens.  Remind them you're getting no guarantee that the bike internals are in fine order, and while they may say the rubber is fine, 5 year-old tires will need replacing straight away, even if they've got zero miles on them.

Also, black was not a color option for 1983 models.  (I believe it might have been for 1984 ones.)  If it's truly an '83, why was it painted?

[drdubb]

650sc's don't have clutch cables, they are hydraulic, wouldn't trust the tires, even with tread, 4yr old tires should be replaced. You'll spend some money fixin her up,,,,, depends on what else is needed. However, in running condition they are fetching $1500 or better. I've seen a parts bike for $500.  Check on ebay for tanks and seats. A good gel cell battery $50.

[chromy]

DrDubb is spot on.  Clutch is hydraulic (hose vs. cable).  Lot's of work and $$$'s go into a NH that has been sitting for 5 years.  New tires, fluids, carb rebuild....

The dollars add up quick.  You can off-set some of those dollars if you do the wrenching yourself.

[drdubb]

I've been working on a 650 for the last year, took me forever (3 cleanings)  to get the carbs right. Ran into some electrical issues, ignition switch, turn signal relay. Had to shoot some WD 40 into the spark plug holes and turn the rear wheel by hand to get the pistons free. Burned out a few starter solenoids before I tried that. Rebuilt brakes and did a few other things along the way. However, you learn a lot along the way. I was nor am I a gear head, but I managed to do all of the jobs myself with a lot of help from this forum.

[noah.c.hardy]

It actually has the tank, its just not attached.  I am more than willing to do lots of wrenching, but I'm not terrible capable (yet).  I'll ask about the repaint.  I also feel like a thousand dollars of repair can go a long, long way.

[chromy]

Yes, what DrDubb said.  I was no wrencher before tackling my CB650SC NH.  The Honda shop manual and this forum got me through it.  I have a lot more knowledge in my tool bag now!  Still, expect to spend several hundred dollars getting her where she needs to be.

[Bumblebee]

Sitting for 5 years = parts bike until it proves itself otherwise.

Partially disassembled means someone was wrenching on it for a reason..probably because it wasn't running when they parked it. They didn't take it apart for fun and seldom does anyone leave a vehicle disassembled like that. They gave up or just quit bothering. Reason unknown. Parts are likely missing like the seat is.

New seat including seat pan = $??? $50 $100? $300? I have no idea how much it costs to obtain one. Not free, probably not a quick easy find.

The tires are history regardless of what they say. Five years storage means at least 6-7 years mimimum which is upper life limit on tire rubber. They're done even if they look pristine. That's $200-250 the instant you roll it out of your garage after getting it running.

IF it's in good condition and runs straight out of the garage on the first attempt by tossing the tank and a seat on (extremely doubtful) you're looking at $1000+ up front for it to be rideable. And you still need crash gear if you haven't got it. And need a shop manual and tools (if you haven't got them) to do the work.

How is your mechanical skills and knowledge? Including knowledge of motorcycles and that model in general? Are they good enough to do a through inspection and know what you're looking?

IMHO there are plenty of operational motorcycles out there for what you're going to spend on that. Unless you know what you're looking at or planning on having a project bike (buying to wrench on, not ride), I'd recommend moving on and finding something operational to buy.

[Laminar]

New seat including seat pan = $??? $50 $100? $300? I have no idea how much it costs to obtain one. Not free, probably not a quick easy find.

I'm not sure if you'd consider 5 seconds of searching on eBay "quick and easy," but it turned up several results under $50.

[noah.c.hardy]

Well, Green Bay is up early... interesting.

What kind of things should make me walk away from a $500 bike, considering the things already know about it?

[Bumblebee]

What kind of things should NOT make me walk away from a $500 bike, considering the things already NOT KNOWN about it?

Fixed that for ya.

Unless you've seen it in person and have looked it over, you know absolutely nothing about it and should approach it as if it must prove itself worthy. Don't look for problems to not buy. Look for reasons to buy it by eliminating potential problems on the checklist.


A handful of potential show stoppers:
Seized engine. Engine making metal. Bad noises from inside the crankcase or transmission case whether it's running or turned by hand. Swing arm damage. Frame damage and especially at the steering head. Bent wheel could indicate impact damage elsewhere. Excessive rust or corrosion in bad places. Crankcase damage. Bent forks (not to be confused with a slightly tweaked triple-T). Cracked critical safety components. Too many missing bits or inability to account for what needs to be there. A lot of little things are cumulative and can eat you alive to get them all up and running - no one item on it's own are show stoppers but 50 $80 pieces is about half the price of a brand new 2011 model. Realistically knowing what is required to take it from broken to operational. Your mechanical skill level vs repair requirements. Do you want to ride it the day you buy it or a year from now? (Then again,you may want the, for example seized engine motorcycle making metal, for some reason, it's up to what the intentions of buying it are)

Here's one you might not be expecting: No title. Lost title. "I will mail it to you next week" title. Title not free and clear. Different owner on the title than the seller - exceptions exist for that. Seriously, it's the sellers responsibility to have that information and paperwork sorted out and in their hands before it goes up for sale. It must be present at the time when funds and keys exhange hands. If not, that is THEIR problem, NOT YOURS and should remain that way.

Here's the strange one that will make a break a sale for me: The person's character and personality who's selling it. If my instincts tell me something is not quite right with the owner, I'm gone right then even if the machine is pristine.

Look it over, know what you're getting into, wait 24-48 hours, then buy only if your instincts don't have a problem with it. If your instincts say no and you can't justify the feeling, run away.


Every vehicle I've ever owned so far is used. I go in knowing generally what I'm looking at and with the default assumption it will fail until such time that it passes. (I've bought known mechanical problems for a reason - I knew what it involved and saved a bundle on the total sale/repair cost because of it) Leave emotions, desires and dreams at home. I've passed up a lot of stuff including quite a few that were really nice mechanically. So far, so good, no regrets in the long run.

[Hangster]

Fix it up Noah ..it's not hard to do , when i got my first bike  (also a 650sc) i didn't know anything about motorcycles but with help from the forum i got that thing to purr like a kitten... ....Good bunch of folk here to answer any questions 

[Soupskin]

I would advise against this route if it is your first motorcycle.

You run the risk of souring your attitude towards motorcycles before you even ride one if it turns out to need major work that you are not familiar with.

Then again, if you are good with a wrench and have lots of patience, go for it.  I would only do a lowball offer on it though, $300 tops.  You can get a running but ugly bike for $500 unlike this one that we really know nothing about.

With a low offer like that, even if you can't get it running, you will be able to recoup your investment by parting it out.

[Soupskin]

Oh..  and

 

Fantastic bunch of folks here.  Even if this deal doesn't work out for you, more NH's always come up for sale.

[chromy]

It was not my intention to put you off on the idea of wrenching on the NH that has been sitting for 5 years.

Wrenching on my NH was theraputic for me.

Bummblebee is right wrt cost on tires (couple hundred minimum with mounting).

I'm the second owner of my 83 CB650SC with 16k miles at that time.  I had to put new steering head bearings, front brake caliper rebuild, stator, rectifier, battery, tires, fork seals, change out all fluids, and clean the tank/carbs x3.

If miles are relatively low, condition is good (motor turns over, looks well cared for, fluids are ok, no leaks) "AND" you enjoy quality wrenching time.....  I'd say go for it.  Otherwise, wave off and wait for something else to come your way.

[drdubb]

+1 on the title thing too. If a good title doesn't come with bike at the time of sale, forget it.

[noah.c.hardy]

This will be my third Honda.  It seems like Nighthawks around these parts don't go for cheap.  I was thinking of a Suzuki Savage, but the build quality just wasn't there and they don't enjoy the reliable reputation that Honda's do, especially Nighthawks.  I might be foolish, but I can't imagine not getting it running with $1200 or so to work with and I think that the pride of ownership and finished product would be superior to just spending $1700.

[Bumblebee]

I can't imagine not getting it running with $1200 or so to work with

I certainly can imagine it..and that's just engine parts alone, not additional stuff like tires and the seat. If the engine were to have, say, swallowed a valve, or maybe the cam chain fell into the crank case while it was running, the price to engine start attempt #1 just went through the roof and likely took half the house with it. More likely than not it's just crudded up carburetors or flaky ignition system or something fairly trivial like that.

I'm not saying that's the case or is even likely. I'm just saying be very aware of what you're letting yourself in for. As one aircraft mechanic I know who does beautiful full teardown restorations says "unless you're planning on creating a new definition for the term 'terrifyingly spendy that takes decades' always start a restoration project with an airworthy aircraft." I think he was on restoration project number 10 or so at the time.

I think that the pride of ownership and finished product would be superior to just spending $1700.

Totally agreed. And you can never get the same dependability by tossing money at anything that you can by doing the work yourself. However you must approach a non running motorcycle as a project, not a rideable motorcycle until it proves itself otherwise. It depends on the purpose you're intending when you buy it.

[XFat TonyX]

I have a seat for sale 

[noah.c.hardy]

Well, I have certainly been given somethings to think about.  I did some more searching and found a 1983 CB550SC with 17,500 miles.  It runs and has a clear title, but needs clutch work and gas tank repair/replacement.  It is priced at $400.  Unfortunately it is 1.5 hours away, but I wonder if that wouldn't be a better choice.

[drdubb]

Sounds more reasonable. What type of tank work? Tanks can be $300 on ebay. The OEM replacement tank for the 750 nighthawk is $800. Lots of folks on this forum have done clutch repairs, depends on the problem. The better you describe a problem, the better the help you'll get.

[noah.c.hardy]

Well, I called the guy with the $400 550.  By clutch work he meant, there is no master cylinder, nor has there been since he has owned it.  He reported trying to use a brake master cylinder with no success.  He is also unsure if all the parts are there and/or original... Yeah, I'm not making a 3+ hour drive for that.

So I'm back to either the $500 detached gas tank, no seat cb650sc
Or there is another cb650sc that has 36000 and minor damage for $1100

I am leaning toward taking my risks on the $500.  I've got lots of time till spring to work on it and, if this thread is any indication, a great group that can help me with fixes along the way.

[Bumblebee]

Don't come down with a bad case of NeedItNowItus. It's early February right now. Full up riding season doesn't start for another 2-4 months depending on where you are and even another month or two into that is no big deal. Unless you're in the middle of absolute nowhere, there will be more stuff out there over the next few months. Check the newspaper, ask around, keep an eye out for motorcycles at houses with for sale signs on them. (Mine was actually unadvertised and I just happened to randomly drive by and see it sitting in the driveway with the for sale sign behind the windscreen - it beat the stuffing out of the ones on craigslist and in the newspapers)

When I finally decided to get my motorcycle, I generally started hunting around November or December. I finally found the one I felt right about in July. Early summer sucked however I haven't regretted the wait since and that was a long time and many many miles ago.

[Laminar]

I'd definitely go for a 650 over a 550. The no-seat bike sounds like a good deal to me, especially if you can talk the guy down some more. 

[ktp1598]

New user here too! Just had to chime in. The nighthawk is hard bike to come by here (by Louisville Ky) at least as a low cost / needs some work bike. I'd say buy it if it looks like it will polish up. What you can learn and that first ride, because YOU fixed it, is priceless. Heck, I'm looking at one with a crankcase skylight for $300.