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Messages - DesertDragon

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General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 30, 2017, 11:20:29 AM »
SG - Wow - Exponential expansion of fuel factors... It looks like most of what they address in statutes (based on a cursory read) are the vapor pressure and required additive(s) and limitation on what a particular state considers a "naughty" ingredient rather than specific input formulation requirements...
But still... Even in the same state at the same time there could be multiple local variants.... 
This could skew results on a ride where the bike gets different formulations even if they are from the same retail name and grade....

General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 30, 2017, 11:00:46 AM »
MrF - Good post.
I have spreadsheets for everything else ;-) but I never created one for my bike's mileage.
To this point I've had so little variation that it didn't seem necessary, but you gave me an idea.
I'm thinking if other folks want to participate, perhaps some data in a common format would provide grist for the analysis mill...
I was thinking:
Bike make / model / beginning mileage
Combustion intake type (carb or injected)
Run log - miles driven that day / time of day (multiple runs per day)
Environmental Factors - temp/humidity
Ride type (commute/canyon race)
Ride "Quality" Open road / Heavy traffic / etc
Unusual activity - e.g. major throttle application to avoid brain dead cager / outrunning a train (I'm joking)  whoohoo1
... and a summary of:
Total Miles on Tank
Total Gallons added
Brand of Gas and grade
Fuel additive  MTBE / Ethanol
MPG (calculated)
If you can think of any other pertinent factors, great.
I wonder if the moderators might be interested, and if there might be a way to capture the info on the forum.
Would an oil company want to get involved... but (as usual) I'm thinking ahead...

Like you, I am intrigued how an adequate (in terms of octane rating) fuel could be outperformed by a different formulation that theoretically shouldn't be making any difference... From feedback on the forum, the surprise results I had seem to be more prevalent than just a fluke.
With enough data, a design of experiment could be conducted to statistically determine significant factors, but shy of that it is possible that a pattern could emerge... Maybe some brands are better than others.. Maybe fuel injected bikes show no difference.. Maybe the mpg increase "evaporates" over time... Who knows.  At this point it's all conjecture.

In any case, I think the results could be interesting, and it could make for an entertaining forum "class" project.... 

Have a good one!

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: Time to sell....regretflly
« on: August 29, 2017, 12:20:30 PM »
Don't feel bad, cause it's a great ride you had...
As far as young... I recently officially joined the old farts club..
Don't you have to be 65 to get in?
Anyway, the gunfighter is a lot lower, but it's not going to help with the dismounts, but glucosamine does!
Hey, you can feel good about passing along a *nice* machine to someone who can ride it without wincing...

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: Time to sell....regretflly
« on: August 29, 2017, 11:01:36 AM »
One thing that helped me was putting flip up pegs on my case savers - Let's me stretch out on a long ride...
Likely too late to help you...

General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 29, 2017, 10:41:37 AM »
First of all, a very nice and reasoned reply.
I am in agreement that a difference in the octane rating in and of itself is very unlikely to be causing any observed changes, real or imagined.
Although the original thread post mentioned octane, myself and others, were commenting on OBSERVED changes in behavior in our machines, based on a fuel change.  In my case, I never attributed any of these to "octane" or an "octane rating". 
Maybe regular vs super would be a better way to couch it.
While the argument was focused on octane, those ranting about that (IMHO) completely missed the point.

Your test result for octane differences and horsepower were again solely octane based, and jetting changes were required...
It could be that my bike's setup is taking advantage of the new fuel, and the regular it always used wasn't ideal.
I don't know either way about that.

For me, it was a question of the results of using regular unleaded vs. super unleaded, in my case, the Mobil Corp product suite, and observing any differences, either positive or negative, between them to address the controversy initiated by the original poster (Rubo?). 
I had no expectations either way, but I anticipated there would be no difference, largely, because as you stated, the consensus opinion that I was aware of is that using a super grade isn't necessary and/or provides no value, if there is no pre-ignition (knock) using regular fuel.  I know that's "common" knowledge.

But - Gasoline is not "octane" - It is a complex chemical formulation consisting of a large and varied number of initial components, variations in process, and very different additive packages.  To argue, as some have, that there can't be a difference in fuels because more octane won't help, is in a word - stupid, because it ignores a vast number of differences.
Observed results cannot be ignored and dismissed while claiming to have a "scientific" orientation.

My feathers got ruffled when I laid out a reasonable outline of the experiment I conducted, and those results were summarily dismissed, in no small part (IMHO) to an emotional connection to a theory that would not allow for any disagreement. 
This is a classic example of corruption in the scientific method.

There IS more than just my mileage difference as empirical evidence, but speaking of that, if you read back through my posts, I did not expect to discover ANY difference other than the extra money I spent.
But I did.
I did not drive differently. 
I drove the same route under the same conditions in order to do an apple to apple comparison, with less variation than most could accomplish, due to my somewhat unique circumstances.
There was a significant difference in mileage. 
I've NEVER in 11 years got over 50 mpg and I measure mpg on every tank.
If it was you making the comment on data points, I agree with you, or whomever made that comment, that more is better and necessary to confirm.
The point for me was that it was worth exploring, because there were unexpected results, rather than trying to explain it away because it didn't fit a  theory.
There are other cases of evidence:
To wit - After the switch to super, idle speed increase was observed by at least 3 people, myself included.
Conversely, I think it was Captain Kirk, who noted he had to turn up his idle to prevent stalling after switching back to regular. 
Regardless of anyone's position on octane, the fact remains that an observed, quantifiable and measurable difference occurred. 
You cannot make an argument (if you wish to be taken seriously) that this is a result of bias on the part of the observer.

Again, I think it was the Captain who noted, as I did, that his bike was able to run without a choke much sooner than when using regular.
This is an easily observed phenomena, just like the idle. 
My bike didn't stop stumbling because I wanted it to because I wanted super to be better, and for someone to summarily dismiss that observation as bias is to me, offensive. 
I happen to be a retired, certified Six Sigma Master Black Belt, and I've saved millions of dollars via implementation of process improvements.
I think I can manage a simple comparison mpg test without screwing it up.

As far as subjective factors, e.g. more power - I didn't notice that, nor is it something I care about. 
My bike has plenty of power for me, but the other item mentioned, "runs better", although subjective does have a basis for me, as I mentioned that my bike's consistent stumble at the top end of my tach went away... "probably" not because I wanted it to because I tried a new fuel.

The bottom line for me is, there appear to be several benefits to the use of Mobil premium fuel in my bike vs their regular.
I intend to continue (as I always have) to monitor and calculate my mpg and I would encourage others to experiment on their own and report their results, and while doing so, I would suggest that folks be aware of the potential for bias, which can impact results, but not typically tachometers.

That being said, I stand by my comment - While I am not a chemical engineer, nor claim to be, and have no specific theory as to what factor or factors are at work between the two fuel grades I've tried which caused the observed improvements, IMPROVEMENTS WERE OBSERVED, and to dismiss those noted as a placebo effect or observer bias has no basis in fact.

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: My '96 CB750 "Dragon Bike"
« on: August 28, 2017, 08:52:32 AM »
Thanks DD, I have the Junior, and have it hooked up to my Hawk.  I had a prior co worker that had a WOLO air horn on his VTX. That think was loud. I drive a  semi, and would love to have something as loud as my semi horn.
I've heard those WOLOs are good..
I had bought something similar, but could't find an easy place to mount it (before my fairing) so I went with the fork reflector mounts.
It seemed an interesting coincidence that the horns and reflectors used the same size thread.... anyway...
With any decent horn you'll need to add a relay because there isn't enough power.
It's pretty simple wiring..
One other thing I did was to add a cigarette lighter type plug when I put in the horn relay so I have a 12 volt power source without having to turn on the ignition.  It works great for phone charging and stuff-like-that-there... haphap

Have a good one, Gordon!

General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 28, 2017, 08:34:03 AM »
Since you guys put it that way... og2
Since switching back to 87, I've had to adjust the idle speed up, and it bogs the first mile or so running through the gears until temps start to come up.
So, I'm not questioning the science, but rather, stating there is more to the issue than meets the eye. Could it be ethanol or additives? Quite possibly. But there is a difference.
Aye Captain !
Your experience and mine are the same regarding warm up, which prompted my mention of a very noticeable change.
My idle on super is also a bit (~150) higher, but I like it that way.   
The increase in idle speed  seems to be a consistent observation, as also mentioned by the original poster.

From what I recall, science "IS QUESTIONING".. why something is, a theory as to causation, and experiment / observation for confirmation.
In this case the "science" would be an observed change (in fuel) a theory as to causation (additives?) and an experiment to confirm it.

What science isn't, is the dismissal of observation that does not fit a desired theory, but sadly, scientists are some of the worst offenders in this regard.

For myself, the bike's change in behavior is worth 20 cents a gallon on a vehicle getting 50 mpg...
I'm happy with a change that lets my bike run leaner sooner (less time on choke) and 10% mpg improvement.

I will continue to monitor mpg performance (it's always a good idea - a change for the worse is a great head's up) and post my ongoing results, but I think a new thread would be a better place.  With enough contributors, it might be possible to discover what formulations and their additives seem to be making the difference... Maybe not, but at least it might provide an interesting discussion topic and give people a reason to ... ride...

Back to the original point of this post... trying to make the case that using super results solely in a placebo effect on the rider is ridiculous, IMHO.

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: My '96 CB750 "Dragon Bike"
« on: August 27, 2017, 07:02:12 PM »
Good Stuff Gordon...
Mounting aside, do yourself the favor of a decent horn so you can be HEARD over the MP3 in the car changing into your lane.
If it sounds like an 18 wheeler, chances are the driver will react. (Personal experience)
For your battery...
Pick up a "Battery Tender" or junior version of it.
They include a harness and quick hookup so you can keep the battery fully charged.
AGM's like to be kept full and if so, pretty well last forever.
Mine is now 10 years old and still has new specs on a tester.
This is especially true (charging) if you don't ride your bike for extended periods.

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: Time to sell....regretflly
« on: August 27, 2017, 06:50:34 PM »
Wow - Nice bike at a great price!
I doubt you'll have a problem selling the bike if it runs as good as it looks.
If I wasn't already in love with my '96, I'd fly there and buy it...

You could mention in your ad that the bike has experienced a "total eclipse"...
Sorry... I'm still jealous I didn't get to see it!

If you don't sell it right away, have you tried or considered alternative seating?
I replaced my stock seat with a Corbin gunfighter, and a gel pad, and my hips are happier!
In any case, good luck...
P.S. There are many others who have lost their 'Hawks, so you can still 'hang around' 

Don't know if anyone has ever linked this before, but it was a great and funny read.
Ht Dog -
Three letter synopsis...
O M G !
(Best Blog EVER !)
Too funny - Thanks!

General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 27, 2017, 05:25:00 PM »
Pants - I think you're the one grinding the wrong ax here..
YOU seem to be the one with a vested interest in an outcome - Not me.
It apparently offends your sensibilities that you might have been wrong all along...
Sorry you were attacked by that gas station attendant who tried to get you hooked on super.
I would like you to explain in your extreme wisdom, how the fuel change described by the post originator resulted in an increase in RPM's enough that he needed to adjust his idle speed. 
Was his intense love of super causing the bike to rev up?

As for the choke, my bike has always been cold blooded..
It's air cooled, so not a major surprise.   
I have always needed to let it run with the choke on for 3 or 4 minutes, and with a small amount of choke when first underway or the engine will bog out. 
It has acted the same way for YEARS and not significantly different regardless of weather, but then I drive when the weather is "nice".

For the week of regular vs super choke comparison, the weather was the same all week and I left at about the same time.
With super, I get no stumble, and I need no choke by the time I'm at the end of my driveway.  This has been consistent.
While it was a freekin' obvious difference to me, I did not expect it, and it was NOT MY FEELINGS attributed to premium fuel.

As far as the mpg test, I drove the same route at the same speed with the same stops and compared mpg results, and they were statistically different.
I did not expect a different result, and I didn't change what I did to bias the test.
The next time I've got a set of local only days I plan on doing it again, as while I always calculate my mpg, I don't have a baseline for the interstate, nor can I create one, because there are too many other variables.

I got into this as an experiment, with absolutely NO predisposition that a fuel change would make any difference... But it did.
I find your contention of bias personally offensive and completely unfounded.

I'm not trying to change your mind - I really don't care what your opinion is.
As far as anything beyond monitoring my mpgs, I am not inclined to go through extreme measures so your panties are no longer in a bunch.

For anyone else out there, give it a try. 
See if it makes a difference. 
Maybe it will, for worse or better..
Maybe you won't notice a thing... but..
Either way you could contribute your OBSERVATIONS rather than blathering your Theory.

General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 27, 2017, 11:58:18 AM »
Hi guys
Lately I switched to 92 octane and my bikes 91NH runs smoother faster and seems to have more power.Noticed idle increased significantly and I adjusted back down but was puzzled why switching the octane increased the idle speed.
Anyway am I experiencing placebo effect or actually my bike runs better.I know it does but need your guys opinions
Suddenly it all makes sense...
It may not be the octane, but other formulation factors that seem to agree with your (and my) bike.
I noticed an unexpected mpg bump (which I will be reconfirming) and in your case, if the same metered fuel results in increased rpm (your idle), it is using less fuel for the same output, which would seem to provide some collaboration for my controlled experiment resulting in improved mpg...

I didn't really notice a change in power output, but one of the most dramatic changes I noticed was that the bike became considerably less "cold blooded"..  My time required on choke was reduced ~ 50%..  Did you notice a similar effect?

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: My '96 CB750 "Dragon Bike"
« on: August 27, 2017, 11:31:49 AM »
That's a beautiful bike DD.  You've given me some ideas for mine!
Were I Elvis... I'd say...  "Thank You! .. Thank You Very Much!"
Glad you liked the pics...
I'm glad you got some take aways..
You can always make a good bike better!
I just saw your red bike - Looks really clean.
A big safety improvement at relatively low cost is a replacement of the beep beep horn..
On your CB 750 the front fork reflectors make an ideal horn mount location... It's like it was designed for it.
Hacksaw off the screw on the back of the reflector and glue it back on the horn...
I used the beep beep spot for mounting a horn relay.
Anyway, thanks for the compliment!

General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 27, 2017, 09:56:55 AM »
Pants Man -
Saw your post after mine, but it looks like I proactively addressed them.
As a former Six Sigma Master Black Belt, I take data seriously and I know about variation in process and measurement.
Never said octane made the difference.
Never said it produced more power, I don't think it does.
You are hung up on octane, I'm not.
You are quoting and attempting to establish theory - I'm not - Just reporting observations.
But I can say this - There were multiple positive results that were not subjective, and measurable.
Because you can't explain them, doesn't mean I was hallucinating.
Like Yogi Bearra said, "In Theory, Theory and Practice are the same... In Practice, they ain't"

General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 27, 2017, 09:36:47 AM »
Confirmation bias - When you "hope for and/or expect" a different result... Very familiar with the concept.

I did not expect a different result and conducted the experiment fully "expecting" that there would be no difference at all.
You guys may not "buy" subjective assessments, but again I wasn't hoping for better performance, I just noticed it.

Particularly when around 8 grand going towards redline, the bike would stumble a bit, has been doing it for years and ceased doing it on super. 
Same run, same bike, same rider... only difference being fuel... 
I'm not sure that qualifies as subjective.   
Surprise maybe, but subjective?

As far as warm up, I've been living with the bike for 11 years now, and I noticed a significant difference in time required on choke (~ 50%)
That is not subjective, it is a measurable quantity - time. 

While there could be a difference in tank fill, it has never affected my results before. 
I calculate MPG on every tank, and fill it at the same station, to the same level. 
For the local travel that I do, it's within 1 mpg variance, which is why I decided to do the experiment in the first place.

I never said that the difference in octane made the difference in mileage and performance, and I still would not say that - Other posters did.
Gasoline is an incredibly complex chemical formulation, and there are different additive packages by grade.
Apparently my bike *really* likes Mobil Premium...  How many folks out there can get 50 miles per gallon on a CB 750 ?
Probably not many - But again, I never stated that "you" would see a difference - I just reported that I did.

I'm not sure, but doubt that there would be a difference measurable in horsepower on a dyno.
There are many aspects of engine performance beyond the power produced, especially if some factor in the fuel is improving mileage..
Same power using less fuel does not mean that the engine produces more power at a given rpm, just that it is more efficient...
One thing I did NOT notice, was any difference is horsepower - just the improved mileage, less warm up and lack of stumble close to redline.

Mr F makes a great point that I agree with - the more data points the better.
Unfortunately, I can only do "the experiment" when I'm traveling the same route, or a whole host of other sources of variation can creep in, so it will be a couple of weeks before I can do that again, but I'll post those when I can, accurately, and without "confirmation bias".

That's the best I can do, since I don't have a dyno available; I think the logistics of evacuating one fuel before using another is more trouble than I plan on giving myself; and I doubt there would be any measurable difference anyway.


General Motorcycle Discussion / Re: Placebo or Real? 87 or 92 octane
« on: August 26, 2017, 11:05:59 AM »
So, I've been following this thread for awhile, and I took a look under the seat of my 96 750.
The emissions sticker says use 91 or higher fuel (RON).
In the owners manual, it states that 86 octane should be used, but no rating designation is noted there.

I am assuming that this isn't a typo in one place or the other and the difference is because US pump octane ratings are (RON+MON)/2, and the RON number for the same fuel is higher than the previously noted "average" number because MON is a different (and lower) measure of the same gas.

I found an interesting explanation (to me, anyway) about the rating systems, and why premium fuel isn't necessarily better.
Here's that link

For my local errands I travel the same route 3 or 4 days a week in a rural area with no traffic and no traffic lights, so I can make it the same trip.
Post office, store, back home, same speed, same gears, same drive.

I do a high speed run one day a week to blow out the carbon if I'm not going anywhere on the interstate that week.
The local town has two freeway entry and exits two miles apart on a deserted interstate (when I do it) which is perfect for a full bore throttle run... (What a great place to live (and ride!)

The bike gets a consistent 44 to 45 mpg when I fill it up, so I thought.. why not do an experiment, since most people cannot control the traffic, traffic light etc variables, I'm in a rather unique situation.

I topped up with Mobil regular unleaded gas (which I always get) at the local station and refilled after 2 weeks.. 45.1 mpg.
No surprise. I always get very close to that for local travel, but just to establish the baseline...

On the next fill, (close to empty) I used Premium from the same station, ran the same routes and the same high speed runs.
Result - 50.4 mpg.
I was actually surprised at an unexpected (> 10%) improvement in mpg, but I have repeated the same test, and I get consistent results.

As far as performance is concerned, I did notice a difference.
My cold-blooded Honda took a lot less choke time.
On my high speed runs the bike ran noticeably better (again, a surprise) when close to red line (8500).

In my case, although my bike is 21 years old, it has low mileage, was babied like a child by all 3 owners and has new factory spec compression.
For me, the higher price of premium is a wash with regular gas because of the better mileage, but considering the bike runs better, I'm going to use super from now on until I see any change (especially in mpg).

Your results may vary, and like the link above indicates, if your vehicle doesn't need (or like it) it's a waste of money.
In some cases, there could even be some negative effects, especially in a compromised (low compression?) engine.



Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: My '96 CB750 "Dragon Bike"
« on: August 18, 2017, 08:02:47 AM »
I've ridden the Voyager to work the last couple days.  Forgot how good the wind protection is on that thing, it's almost too hot to ride.  The bike definitely doesn't meed much mechanically, still runs smooth and pretty quick for a big touring rig.  Needs some cosmetic help is all.

Yeah, we're right in the middle of it -  there are parties all over the place here and lots of people taking Monday off.  I'll be at work as usual - got to save the days off for the doc appointments and such.
Yep - Big fairing = Big Difference
Since it's running well, it would also look lots better with a repaired seat... and it would probably be more comfortable too..
As for the eclipse, at least take a two minute break when it gets as dark as midnight somewhere between 2:30 and 2:45 on Monday.
Just because it's local doesn't mean it isn't special. 
With the sun completely covered, you don't even need glasses (not true when there is ANY sunlight showing)... Then you NEED them.
Out West, there are journeys of epic proportions taking place to see it, and I wish I could, but I can't, so I won't... 
Poor me... Poor me...
Later Gator

Stablemates / Re: My Prior (MC) Love Interest was....
« on: August 17, 2017, 08:59:24 AM »
That Viffer is (was) sweet! I have an 'inception year' (1983) VF750F Interceptor with 6k on the clock as a project bike, but it's pretty much stalled on the back burner. Work has been too hectic and unpredictable since my job change 3 years ago. But I know it's always there. nice1
Aye Captain!
It sounds like a worthwhile project... Super low mileage too..
That's promising... Mine was under 4K but still started as a basket case (it probably needed a valve adjustment  whoohoo1 )
Actually, the prior owner did 95 % of the work, (and dropped a truckload of dollars into it) but when reassembled the intake and overflow hoses were switched, so as soon as it warmed up, coolant would spew out all over the place.
The prior owner didn't "remember" to mention this issue and my guess is he thought the bike had a major problem, so I got it cheap.
My major fix was switching the two hoses.
I managed to get the few pieces I needed from Bike Bandit, but not cheap..
Anyway, good luck when you get back to that '83!

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: My '96 CB750 "Dragon Bike"
« on: August 17, 2017, 08:43:39 AM »
I wish.  The ST site has a couple of rides set up to watch the eclipse from different locations.  Unfortunately, my wife has health issues, and for the most part, the only riding I get anymore is back and forth to work.  Considering selling the bikes as they're hardly getting any miles.  I originally traded a Concours for the Voyager, hoping it would enable her to ride, but that hasn't happened, and doesn't look promising.
So sorry to hear that...  I'd put a few dollars into the Voyager before trying to sell it, if it were mine.
If you sell both, your going to miss the two wheeled option... IMHO

As far as the eclipse, it's probably the last total either of us will get a chance to see.
In my case, it's over 1,000 miles and travel across several states to get there.
If I recall, you're in South Carolina somewhere, so you might be able to be in the total path by
I wish.  The ST site has a couple of rides set up to watch the eclipse from different locations.  Unfortunately, my wife has health issues, and for the most part, the only riding I get anymore is back and forth to work.  Considering selling the bikes as they're hardly getting any miles.  I originally traded a Concours for the Voyager, hoping it would enable her to ride, but that hasn't happened, and doesn't look promising.
So sorry to hear that...
As far as the eclipse, it's probably the last total I'll get a chance to see, and I have to travel 1,000 miles across several states to get to a view spot.
You're in central South Carolina according to your profile, so you won't have much (or any) of a commute...
Here's the map from NASA.. Scroll down and there is one for S Ca..

Even if you do have to drive, take the day off on Monday, put your wife and a picnic lunch in the "family truckster" and go make a memory....

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: My '96 CB750 "Dragon Bike"
« on: August 16, 2017, 03:57:44 PM »
Yeah, some good natured ribbing, but what can I say, I like yellow.
But, in my old age, I like having wind protection and carrying capacity.  I have an 03 ST1300A (in ugly silver/gray) and a 95 Voyager.  The Voyager is kind of ugly - some cracked plastics and torn seat, but is very comfortable, gets decent mileage and handles pretty good.  The ST is fast and fairly comfortable, but I think I preferred the ST1100.
I'm a big fan of the "sun" shade as well. 
I'm right there with you, except for the tent.. Yellow bike, yellow jacket, yellow helmet, yellow striped pants...
I'm also a fairing fan, and the Rifle Sport does a decent job. With soft luggage I have room for what I need.
The Voyager doesn't look bad, and with a bit of new upholstery...  I know wet foam isn't the most comfortable perch.

Your STi is a great looking bike!  I like the silver grey, myself.
It would probably look great in a total solar eclipse...   
Hey ! You're in luck! 
There's one on Monday, and you have a choice of bikes...

Two words - Road Trip!

Stablemates / Re: My Prior (MC) Love Interest was....
« on: August 16, 2017, 11:59:08 AM »
I sold my VFR800 5th gen long ego and main reason fear of overheating.This all gear driven engine is beautiful to listen but creates lots of heat and when stuck in traffic temp shoots way up and if anything goes wrong with the fans you are screwed.I just could not take the stress being in traffic almost all the time here in Boston.Fine machine if outside of city with vast open roads which almost never here hence why I bought the NH lot more happy and been stuck in traffic without issues.
Do miss that VFR sound specially on downshifts.
Your model has probably most complicated valve adjustment and why I think they are relativity cheap to buy on CL since just adjusting the valves are over 1k job.
Enjoy your NH
Yep - I know that gear driven cam sound... 
My VF1000R was pretty, but just too much work to keep up.  It was designed to race, not to be a daily rider...
The other problem I had with it was my terminal case of "right wrist disorder" which is the 2 wheeled equivalent of "lead foot disease".. 
On the VF, it was WAY too easy to achieve free Highway Patrol bracelet speeds...
I also can't handle clip-ons anymore.. After an hour I really needed to get off the bike.
With the 'Hawk - I can ride all day and still feel good in the evening.

I'm probably in the exact opposite of you in terms of traffic - because where I live, there isn't any.
On my 5 mile ride to town, it's unusual to see more than 2 cars on the road.
I know Boston traffic and I used to drive a GS750 in LA.
Probably, my survival was helped by pretending that I was invisible to everyone except the people trying to kill me!

Anyway, be careful out there and wherever possible, enjoy the ride!

Stablemates / Re: My Prior (MC) Love Interest was....
« on: August 15, 2017, 05:06:05 PM »
Oops... Like Emily Latella would say... Nevermind..
I just saw your your '83 Black Beauty 650SC on your new to me thread..
Looks sweet!
Wow - It looks like we both made major changes in hardware (in my case, it was 11 years ago).
Anyway, good luck on the ST1100 sale...
HINT - If you price it high enough, it will never sell... 
Honey, I don't know, I have it for sale EVERYWHERE...

Stablemates / Re: My Prior (MC) Love Interest was....
« on: August 15, 2017, 04:51:04 PM »
Speaking of VFR's I just sold mine and bought the Nighthawk.  whoohoo1
Now if I can just get my ST1100 sold before my wife kills me.  :(
I think your VFR was just a "little bit" newer than my 1985...
Probably a LOT easier to live with as well...
Both beautiful machines!
I think I know why your wife was prepared to "kill you"...
You spent too much time admiring those gorgeous "red metal ladies" in the garage!
Is the issue that she only wants one bike in the garage, and that only happened for a few hours???

Obviously, the next question is, which model NightHawk did you get, and where's the picture?  pics44
Inquiring minds want to know...

Your Honda Nighthawk / Re: My '96 CB750 "Dragon Bike"
« on: August 15, 2017, 09:08:47 AM »
I don't miss it that much, I gave it to my brother, so I still get to ride it on occasion 
I had a Tsunami fairing before the Rifle, but my son crashed and the fairing got destroyed.  I got the Rifle cheap on eBay.  It worked well enough, but wasn't as pretty.  I took the 96 out to the first big NH rally at KSL, and it was called the Barbie set - my tent, jacket and bike matched. 
Barbie Set - Too funny...  I guess if your 96 is still around there is less to miss....
So what do you generally ride?  IS there a choice in your garage, or a favorite?

Stablemates / My Prior (MC) Love Interest was....
« on: August 14, 2017, 08:45:07 PM »
My Prior (MC) Love Interest was this Honda VF1000R ....

From the side....

She was good to me, I doubled my money, but talk about high maintenance...
6 hour valve job every 600 miles (factory recommended)

Much happier with my more sedate, less maintenance and dependable...

Dragon Mate:


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